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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
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On 2012-02-17 18:10, mastermindreader wrote: It's my not-so-subtle way of pointing out how common and accepted usage frequently differs from the way things ought to be pronounced. *sniff sniff* Cesare Cardini deserved better! *sniffle*
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
I've been to Caesar's, but I didn't have the salad there. It was very well-prepared and artfully presented, however, at the Maisonette, back in the day.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
The thing is that Cesare himself called his restaurants "Caesar's," not "Cesare's," and his company was named Caesar Cardini's Foods, Inc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_Cardini |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
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On 2012-02-17 18:43, mastermindreader wrote: And if only those ignorami around him had learned to pronounce his name properly, such tragedy could have been averted!
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
One of my own pet peeves is the recently popularized usage (in politics and advertising) of "grow." It's "Mistress Mary, quite contrary, how does your garden grow?" NOT "How do you grow your garden." The garden grows by itself, all you can do is plant and nurture it. The economy grows. You can stimulate it, but the phrase "grow the economy" makes me cringe.
Bob |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2012-02-17 18:48, The Burnaby Kid wrote: Nah. I think he just thought "Caesar" sounded better. |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Whatever! So long as this insolence towards one's good and proper name remains, I shall respond in kind by exhibiting my own!
(Nee-chee Nee-chee Nee-chee Nee-chee...)
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
(Come on, try it out, it's fun to say.)
(Nee-chee Nee-chee Nee-chee Nee-chee...) (Screechy witches at the beach eat itchy Nee-chee's Cheesies!)
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-02-17 17:32, Woland wrote: You're quite welcome for the ligature thing W. As for Axed and Axes, I'm heading to a real situation here, so please stay with me. As you may have gleaned from other posts, I'm a product of corporate Amarica. Had a great career, blah blah blah. I also did a lot to promote women and minorities working for me before it was thing to do. I once promoted an individual who was a crackerjack electrician. I needed him/her as a front line manager for technical areas he/she knew better than me and he/she was great at what he/she did. He/she excelled in his/her work and I heavily relied on him/her. There were numerous times when I held meetings or attended meetings with high level folks within our organization and I needed him/her with me. But every time Axes or Axed came out of his/her mouth, I cringed. I never counseled him/her on it because I didn't think in the world we live in, it would have been acceptable by the HR folks. It certainly wasn't acceptable language in our meetings. And so it went. What would you have done?
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
I would have done as you did and just accepted the fact that the pronunciation is very common in African American dialect. (It's also still very common among in the NYC area among some Italian Americans and other ethnic groups.) Admittedly it does not sound educated, but language is as language is spoken.
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
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On 2012-02-17 19:35, mastermindreader wrote: I never said the person was an African American, male or female. I know that Italians speak the same way, having grown up in Queens, which is why I was sensive to it. Yet I've never heard it from any other ethnic group I grew up with. I grew up with Germans, Italians, Blacks, Chinese, Swedes, and the whole melting pot of New York. My point being, there exists an appropriate language for English-speaking Americans; read that again: Americans. It should be taught as such. I wonder if the French Canadians in Montreal would accept the destruction of the beauty of the French language as spoken? A waiter in Paris once wouldn't acknowledge that I ordered eggs in his native tongue. Apparently he didn't like the way I said "oeufs."
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Bob-
In very general terms I agree with you. But the reality is that language is something that is constantly evolving. The question of what is correct or not depends on where it is being spoken, by whom it is spoken, and, most importantly, how well it conveys the thoughts of the speaker to his or her intended audience. The English that I used when I was arguing cases as a defense attorney is entirely different than the English I use in my stand-up act. What is "correct" or not is really a matter of perspective and determining what is appropriate in the circumstances. There is no single "correct" form of American English. I agree with you, though, that in a corporate setting saying,"I wanna aks a question," is not going to create a favorable impression. It's just a matter of knowing your audience and how best to communicate with them, as in the following classic example from "Airplane!": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=190iqepL-G4&feature=related :eek: Good thoughts, Bob |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Bob,
Thanks for sending that Barbara Billingsly link to lighten things up. And thanks for understanding my situation. I agree with the places and setting for language that you present. I guess I'm frustrated that as Americans, we can't seem to agree that our national language is English and it should be taught that way. My magic for kids is totally grammatically incorrect. But as you say, there's a time and place for that. I'm sure Lincoln had his private moments, but his expression in public and writing was inspiring. I obviously can't vouch for his speaking but it's been said he had a high pitched voice and was animated when he was stumping. But the written words of his Gettysburg Address and the public reaction to it makes me believe he was a great speaker too.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
That was tough call, Bob. Given the time and the place, there was probably little else you could do. Might be something to discuss with the individual privately and cautiously.
Lincoln was a tenor. Most orators of the day were tenors. Had to be, to be heard by a crowd of 10,000 people outdoors, without amplification. They probably spoke slowly and enunciated clearly. But do you know why you can only get one egg in a French restaurant? |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Enough already with the French egg yolks!
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On 2012-02-18 05:35, Woland wrote: Because one is un oeuf? |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Exactly right, M'sieu.
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
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On 2012-02-17 18:52, mastermindreader wrote: HA! I read this post this morning, then ran across the following while reading in the bathtub: "My belief is that on the side he grew a little herb garden of good, generous feelings." That's from Saul Bellow's "Ravelstein". Saul Bellow ain't no slouch at prose, Bob. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
No, he certainly wasn't. When it comes to gardens and hair, etc. the word is often used that way, so perhaps my "clever" example wasn't so good.
But when I hear phrases like "grow the economy" or "grow your business" I'm not hearing anything even remotely "Bellowesque." Maybe I can find a way to grow my peeve. |
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