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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Kennedy Center Deal (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Piqsirpoq
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If you are talking about the show with Daniel Radcliffe as a guest, Derek does a pseudocenter.
LoďcJ.
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I'm talking about this one : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK_O8G5V_Tc
silverking
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I've seen the Delgaudio videos quite a few times. There's no doubt he has some serious chops.

It's completely subjective on my part, (an "IMHO" as it were)....but for what he does with a deck of cards in public performance, I simply don't think Forte has any contemporaries.

The only other performer I've seen that I think puts across a remotely similar "vibe" with a deck of cards in his hands is Jack Carpenter.

Again, these are highly subjective, personal opinions.......your millage will vary.
LoďcJ.
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In my mind (It's very subjective on my part too) this demo is very similar with the Forte's demo. That's why I wanted to be sur that you know it. Now I perfectly understand your point of view.

I think Steve Forte hasn't any contemporaries too. But here, if a layman watches these two tv shows, I think it's very hard for him to clearly distinguished both.
Cagliostro
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Quote:
On 2012-02-17 15:09, LoďcJ. wrote:
Derek Delgaudio is the exception which proves the rule. He uses a real center deal.

One can certainly use a “real” center deal during a demonstration. It can be done either “real” or pseudo, they both have their pros and cons. Looking at it from the top down is a very forgiving angle, which is why it is shot from that angle. Pretty much like the Jared Kopf video above which is viewed from the same direction.

As I said, I am not a magician so this is really not of much importance to me except for my casual entertainment. Delgaudio is skillful and does nice card tricks but if he tried his center in a game, without the forgiving angles, he would definitely have to wear that blindfold so as not see the bullets coming at him. That is not a criticism of his work. He is a good magician, sees things from the eyes of a magician and performs as such, but this is strictly to wow an audience and excite magicians. I doubt that a room full of hustler would be impressed by his center deal.

For a demo, I would still say that in general a good pseudo center has much better angles than a “real” center deal, possibly more forgiving and perhaps even more deceptive. Based upon many years of experience, in game situations I cannot think of anything more useless than a center deal and have never seen a “real” hustler waste his time on this move. There are just so many far better ways to beat a game.

In my opinion, center deals are strictly for magicians, make-believe hustlers and protection gurus who like to demonstrate moves under the guise of it being the “real” work. Nothing wrong with that but it is not going to make me titillate with excitement. I would need a beautiful or exciting woman for that, but to each his own. Smile

Thanks for sharing the link.
Cagliostro
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Quote:
On 2012-02-17 14:09, silverking wrote:
I've never seen a card performance (gambling or otherwise) that even comes close to the one Steve Forte gives in the "Hidden Secrets of Magic" portion of his DVD set.

From Forte's performance personality, his open and polite interaction with the specs, his ability to put across the impression he can do absolutely anything he wants to with a deck of cards, up to and including his ability to use a psuedo-center deal such that it's even more deceptive than an actual center deal...

It's a graduate course in what a gambling demo should look like.

Forte certainly is a consummate artist when it comes to presenting gambling demonstration moves - crisp, fast and effortless. One of the great lessons of this video is even with his exceptional skill he is not above using clever subterfuge to achieve his objectives, re the pseudo center and using a confederate to request four sevens be culled from the deck.

That is very clever and somewhat like what John Scarne liked to do in a former era. Scarne was considered a great sleight-of-hander but also would incorporate subterfuge in his work, like duplicate cards, and it drove the magicians crazy trying to figure out some of his “sleight of hand” work. They were all looking for moves when he was not using moves and that is what fooled them.

LoďcJ. point is well taken above comparing the Forte with Delgaudio demos. We watch this material with a different eye than the layman. To him a good performance is simply a good performance. I think some of the subtle nuances are lost on most spectators.
tommy
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The narrow minded fellows here who think magic can't be used in the pasteboard jungle are of limited experience. Anyone who tells you a hustler should never demonstrate his skill is wrong.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Cagliostro
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Quote:
On 2012-02-18 08:33, tommy wrote:
The narrow minded fellows here who think magic can't be used in the pasteboard jungle are of limited experience. Anyone who tells you a hustler should never demonstrate his skill is wrong.

Once again, the voice of knowledge and experience. LOL

The comment is too cryptic and ephemeral for discussion – a “tommy” one-liner.
cartouche7
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I am sorry for my "idiot" question, but I don't understand how Derek Delglaudio do his final tricks (I know near nothing about magic). The deck is in order but at the beginning, the deck was washed. Please, somebody can explain that for me?

About his center deal, the break is very very large... If he can't do a "good" center deal, I don't understand why he doesn't do a pseudo center.. It's a magic show after all...
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I find this video nice but the bottom deals are so-so and the center deal has a huge break (plus he misses one card). Zarrows are not great too.

IMHO, I think Derek is skilled and that routine is pretty, but he's far, very far from Mr Steve Forte.

@cartouche,

It's pretty obvious how he did. Ask yourself why so many blinds. Another tip, HCDS Smile.
tommy
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Not too cryptic for some of the more experienced and perceptive guys here but for the benefit of Cagliostro, who obviously hasn't got a clue, I guess I will have to educate him. Think in terms of gambling confidence tricks rather than beating a card game. There is more than one way to skin a cat there are 101. ie

The crew first finds a mark with money, who in private is shown a litle game called find the lady, in which by a demosration of skill it is proven to his satisfaction that he nor anyone else can possibly win. He is then asked if he is interested in financing a score in which they with the little game are going to take a lot money from a sucker who they have lined up. If he goes for it the score goes wrong and the mark loses his dough, in nut shell. Such cases are as a matter of fact on public record as there have been trials and so can be proven. These things are as old as the hills and still going today for your information. That is one, would you like another example or do get it now?

Arabs and other people who should not gamble according to their religion often make the best marks for these scams for they are more recuctent to run to the cops if they smell a rat after they have been took, incidently. Its hard to prove a case but where there is more than one the pattern can tell the jury the story and when one mark hears the same thing happened to someone else he can put two and two together and reailize he too was had. This can result in other marks coming forward to make a string of simular complaints.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Cagliostro
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Regarding tommy’s incredibly perceptive and informative post above.

WOW. You really are an experienced and knowledgeable guy. I’m very impressed and overwhelmed. Please keep this good stuff coming - a virtual fountain of worthwhile information gleened from the newspaper.

Quote:
On 2012-02-18 08:33, tommy wrote:
The narrow minded fellows here who think magic can't be used in the pasteboard jungle are of limited experience. Anyone who tells you a hustler should never demonstrate his skill is wrong.


Because you are so knowledgeable and experienced I have a homework assignment for you.

Since you have quoted Erdnase on one of your posts I assume you have a least read portions of the book (probably the magic section), and maybe even have borrowed a couple of DVDs on gambling exposes. Open the book and read the section entitled, “Display of Ability.” Then write this section out, word for word, 100 times by longhand. After you have done that, post what you have learned on this thread.

By the way, unfortunately I have gotten unfavorable reports about you from your potty training instructor. Seems like you are just not catching on to the basic potty training concepts. Please try to apply yourself as these concepts will be important to you, and the people around you, later in life.

Finally, just out of curiosity, do you have any idea at all that mentally you don't seem to be dealing with a full deck.
tommy
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Temper temper. You can keep talking about things you have never done, can't prove and plagiarising Phantons of Card Table and it might just help you sell a few more of your pirate DVDs here to keep you going but the only elite high stakes private games that is going to get you to are the ones you dreamt up.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
silverking
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I'm not seeing the correlation between roping a mark by whatever means a particular con calls for, and an actual card or dice hustler openly displaying his skill.

Roping a mark being a requirement of the con in order for it to work to the advantage of the con-man.

Displaying ones skill openly not at all a requirement of the hustler..........and as per Erdnase, completely frowned upon if one is considered a professional.
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2012-02-18 21:25, silverking wrote:
Displaying ones skill openly not at all a requirement of the hustler..........and as per Erdnase, completely frowned upon if one is considered a professional.


I agree however I have had conversations and it depends on if they are "retired" professionals or not.

The center deal is in interesting argument - Robert Kennedy has been said to have used it. However the protocol of many of the games that were played were different in those days in many games. And from what I have read on the subject Robert Kennedy used it in 5 card stud - a game not as popular as it was back then. And as I understand it the deck must be tabled now (today) between each deal.

The method of the Robert Kennedy deal as allegedly shown to Vernon is written up in the Magic and Methods of Ross Bertram. Vernon’s hands are used in the pictures.

Jack Pyle center deal was this method. However often he did a pass (shift - hop) and often he did bottoms in a show. I also use this method and like Jack Pyle I also often shift and deal bottoms.

As a magician doing a show or a demo - my job is to entertain the audience. Magicians like Jack Pyle and Jay Ose often used magic moves instead of gambling moves just because they were doing a show and the gambling moves are out of context - Steve Forte (as Silverking already pointed out in this thread) also did a Pseudo center deal.

Why? Most likely entertainment reason's and fitting it together into a routine - for the agreed performance time on a TV show - would be my guess.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
tommy
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In the game I spoke about one must prove to the marks satisfaction that one can do the business with the cards, one must display ability to him to convince him that one can get the money so that he thinks he can't lose so to get him to finances the game. When Erdnase said one should never display ability to friend or foe he was wrong as this example proves, as its the very fact of displaying ability that gets the marks hooked. The mark in effect is betting a lot of dough on your ability. In this game its no good just telling the mark a story, you have to show him something he can have confidence in. The principle is the same no matter what the move is or the game, even though I have never heard of anyone demonstrating a middle deal to prove to a mark he can get the money to finance a score. The point is that one could as its a very impressive move to the lay man.

Glenn makes a good point anyway about the protocol of many of the games being different in those days. There are many things that do not fit the bill for todays poker games that were practical back then and not so long ago. Even self dealt poker games are not practical at the Holden tables which are communally used today. These tables are in fact casino tables that are designed for dealers not for players to do the dealing, as anyone who has tried to deal from the long end of an Holden table knows. If you look at the hundreds of private poker game advertised on the internet you will see that most say they have dealers. When we played draw it was played on smaller, round tables often, as fewer players could play due to th amount of cards used. More players can play a Holden game because of the use of community cards obviously.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
cartouche7
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Quote:
@cartouche,

It's pretty obvious how he did. Ask yourself why so many blinds. Another tip, HCDS .


I am sorry I still don't understand how he do that.
LoďcJ.
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I don't want to be heavy... but the gambling spot, especially this thread is not the area for this kind of question ?! Use your brain, I'm sure you will understand.
cartouche7
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Why you don't just answer to my question? Why do you play this game with me? I have re watched the video dozen of time, with the tip from Arnold too, but I wasn't able to find how it's done.
Cagliostro
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Quote:
On 2012-02-19 00:00, tommy wrote:
In the game I spoke about one must prove to the marks satisfaction that one can do the business with the cards, one must display ability to him to convince him that one can get the money so that he thinks he can't lose so to get him to finances the game. When Erdnase said one should never display ability to friend or foe he was wrong as this example proves, as its the very fact of displaying ability that gets the marks hooked.

This is a double cross play and it is a con using playing cards and completely different from hustling a game. We are comparing apples to oranges here. As usually, you still don’t seem to get it.

I have gotten to the point where your posts (in response to my posts), are good for a laugh a day. It seems that what I write is completely over your head most to the time given your bizarre and “left field” responses. You really don't get it at all as is obvious to most.

Keep ‘em comin.’ LOL
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