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FrenchDrop Inner circle I can name that tune in 1647 Posts 
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On 2012-03-27 19:40, Eric Rose wrote: +1. I'm sure Harry's written about this before, on this board or elsewhere, but I'd be interested in knowing what books he read when he was learning, before there were Harry Lorayne books. What were his favorites as a young magician learning the craft?
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts
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I didn't have any magic books when I was a "young magician learning the craft." The only thing I really remember, something I breathlessly waited for every month, was Hugard's Magic Monthly. Currently, I have to hesitate before "mentioning" any other books, because - if I name one and not the other, I'll make enemies. But, anything by David Regal or Ken Krenzel, of course. As I grew older, I also learned MUCH from Ed Marlo pamphlets and books (The Cardician!!). And, of course, there were the Vernon, written by Ganson, books and the Bruce Elliot books. I was fortunate - I learned from these people personally - from Vernon, Bruce Elliott, Bill Simon, Ed Balducci, etc. This was, of course, later on in my "youngish" life. (I didn't know about magic shops until I got out of the army - that was World War II, guys, NOT World War I!!). Harry L.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts
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I probably can discuss more, but I won't - I'm afraid to get the "There we go again ..." cr*p from the fortuntely few mlippos (and spartacuses) of these threads - just as happened here. But I thought I'd take a chance and try to help others. Perhaps there will be no put-downs from these, and others like them. I need to be careful - if I answer them as I would like, I'd be banned - which is what happened back in February. Gotta be careful!! HL.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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FrenchDrop Inner circle I can name that tune in 1647 Posts
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Thanks for the info and a bit o' history, Harry. I figured you probably learned in person from some big names, but it's interesting to know what publications you learned from, too.
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-03-26 20:21, spartacus wrote: This advice is AWFUL. Simply terrible. You could make a great career for yourself as a cards-only magician many lifetimes over with just these texts. Atrocious.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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diehards2080 Loyal user Brooklyn, New York 256 Posts
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I know this may sound like a joke but I do not own Royal Road to Card magic even though I have studied some of it when I borrowed it from a friend. Three books that come to mind that I started learning from is ECT, RCT and Card College Vol 1. RCT is not a smart purchase as a beginner but I did pick it up. All 3 books has a wealth of info that is great. Mr. Loryane's book Close Up Card Magic is a wonderful book also. Fortitude is one of my favs to perform. I know many who have started with Harry's work and build solid foundations. I know his description of the Faro along with other sources help me achive the sleight. The books is very well written which makes the learning process easier.
I however did not start with Mr. Lorayne's books. I did not purchase my first one "CUCM" for quite some time. I started with the above 3 first and with good success so that's why the frist 3 books are usually first for me to recommend. I can not recommend a book that I did not start with as a beginner but I do know how powerful the info in Harry's books is, there is no doubt about it for me and not having at least one of them is ashame. I suggest doing some research into all of the books mentioned. |
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metaljohn Loyal user Montreal, QC 280 Posts
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I started with Royal Road and it did help me a great deal. I then went to Card College volumes 1 & 2 and although it helped me refine sleights and stuff, I didn't progress much as a performer. I still think Royal Road helps the beginner out in performance more than CC does. Don't get me wrong, CC is great and I go back to the series often when there's a sleight I need for a trick and I know it's in there.
I think what pushed me further when I started reading Harry Lorayne stuff. The Classic Collection volume 1 has Close-Up Card Magic in it. I already had a founddation in sleight of hand stuff, and although Harry goes over the basic sleights in his books anyways, it was this book that pushed me further. In my opinion, the beginner can actually benefit more from the Clasic Collection volume 1 than the tricks in Card College which are harder to do in my opinion. Just because they're harder to do doesn't make them better. Encyclopedia of Card Tricks, Best Of Friends and the Essential Dai Vernon |
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Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts
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I reccomended Harry's book on my own. I have no incentive to do so except for the success I had performing unique effects no one else was doing. I have a large library of card magic books and DVDs. I always go back to Harry's stuff. I think part of it is his teaching style, but mainly you will find effects---good effects---- you won't find anywhere else.
Harry SHOULD and has the right to promote his stuff. I think most of those who don't reccomend Harry's material or, worse yet, IGNORE Harry's material, have not done his material. I appreciate the man and his contributions to Magic. If you have some personal gripe with him or his style seems too brusque to you, I reccomend: Just buy and study and use his material. And you'll be a GOOD Card Magician.
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts
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"Just because they're harder to do doesn't make them better." Excellent piece of advice.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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lehmannbindery New user 51 Posts
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I am working my way through "The Royal Road to Card Magic" and have found R. Paul Wilson's DVD's an excellent supplement. I first read through a section in the book, trying to work through it on my own and then watch the relevant section on the DVD. I find the combination a good way for me to learn.
Mr. Lorayne's are excellent. I'm just having fun following this more structured approach. Frank |
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mlippo Inner circle Trieste (Italy) 1227 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-03-30 09:37, lehmannbindery wrote: Excellent choice! But in my opinion, for the same amount, you have the Card College series (talking about the books), which is much more updated course since it explains in detail sleights and effects that had not been published when 'Royal Road' went to the printers ... mlippo |
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mlippo Inner circle Trieste (Italy) 1227 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-03-28 00:49, The Burnaby Kid wrote: Yeah! I can't think of any worse books for who would like to specialise in card magic! Please, don't read this stuff: leave it for the idiots (like myself) who think they could learn something from all this c**p... mlippo |
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mlippo Inner circle Trieste (Italy) 1227 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-03-27 20:27, Harry Lorayne wrote: If we are 'fortunately few', why do we bother you so much? I have written some time ago that I own a good amount of your books (and that I am not going to purchase anymore of them, since my big disapointment after meeting you here on the Café) and that I find they have good stuff altogether. I have written that Close-Up Card Magic is a book full of good stuff and that it must've deservedly been a must in the 60's, 70's and 80's for whoever was interested in learning good card magic. But now there in Card College, which is, IN MY OPINION, far more superior in teaching, number of sleights and presentation/psychology/misdirection/routine construction and what have you. Please, why don't you all let us know what is YOUR opinion on Card College? I'm Italian and Roberto Giobbi a Swiss/Italian and I swear this ain't nothing to do since I ain't no relative nor friend of Mr. Giobbi (who I have not even met in my life) with my opinion (double negatives were intended of course). thanks mlippo |
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Jim Sparx Inner circle Far Out, Texas 1144 Posts
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Thanks, mlippo
In keeping with the tradition of recommending terrible card books and atrocious reading, I found some more junk on the bottom shelf in the garage. Allan Ackermaan, any and all, Every Move and Las Vegas Frank Garcia, how could I have forgotten. Read everything Richard Kaufman, of Genii fame, is responsible for the Brother John Hamman book I mentioned Le Paul before, he also has a Brother Hamman book Jon Racherbaumer, everything The complete Roy Walton Collected Works of Alex Elmsley by Minch, who also wrote the Vernon Chronicles Other interesting works by Minch Jerry Mentzer Card Cavalcade 1-4 Lewis Ganson, responsible for the Dai Vernon books Cy Endfields also by Ganson Did anyone mention Peter Duffie? Not everything listed is beginner books, certainly not the Erdnase book I listed beforehand. Read at your own risk. Better yet, just go to the library and check out Blackstones Card Tricks, or something by Scarne (how could we forget Scarne?) BTW. For books from the past here is three sources I buy old stuff from: http://www.odowdmagicbooks.com/ http://www.bradburybooks.com/ http://www.byronwalkermagicbooks.com
Et tu, Spartacus?
https://fineartamerica.com/profiles/chispadeelpaso.html |
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lehmannbindery New user 51 Posts
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[/quote]
for the same amount, you have the Card College series (talking about the books), which is much more updated course since it explains in detail sleights and effects that had not been published when 'Royal Road' went to the printers ... mlippo [/quote] mlippo, I realize Card College is an excellent choice but I chose RRCM because it is one volume (something I can see myself getting through cover to cover), I can supplement it with the Wilson DVD's and it has a lot of great stuff even if it isn't the most up to date. At my level, I still have a lot to learn from it. Then it will be on to Card College. Frank |
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mlippo Inner circle Trieste (Italy) 1227 Posts
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Frank,
absolutely agree that Royal Road is an excellent choice. I wish I had it 25 years ago when I started with card magic. Instead I had (by same authors) Expert Card Technique, which funnily enough, has at the end an interesting section about presentation. Something that I think should've been in Royal Road instead, but altogether was, in my opinion not at the same level as Royal Road. In Card College vol.2 you will find a beautiful section on theory easily worth the price of the whole volume. But remember that, although divided in two volumes, Mr. Giobbi considers the two books together as the first basic part of the Card Magic Course... mlippo |
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts
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"I have written some time ago that I own a good amount of your books (and that I am not going to purchase anymore of them, since my big disapointment after meeting you here on the Café) and that I find they have good stuff altogether."
GREAT! Please do not ever buy any more of my books, mlippo. As a matter of fact, there's no way I'd accept an order from you. Guess that makes us even. (Talk about "disappointment"!! Finding people like you on decent threads is terribly disappointing.)
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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mlippo Inner circle Trieste (Italy) 1227 Posts
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No problem, mr. Lorayne.
But I'm still eager to know your opinion on the Card College series or at least point me to a discussion where you wrote about it (if any). I think that being this a discussion I have the right to ask such a question and you could be kind enough to reply. I gave my opinion on your books. thanks mlippo |
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts
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Okay, I agree, no problem Mr. mlippo.
And, I'd be more than happy to give you my opinion on the Card College series, but can't, 'cause I've never read them! Nor would I give my opinion of them if I HAD read them, just as I wouldn't give my opinion of or review ANY books. Why? Because I'm in a funny position - whatever I'd say about anyone else's book would make someone unhappy. If it was a great review, others would ask why I don't review their books that way, and etc. That's why - although I'm sure you're not aware of it - IN THE TWENTY YEARS that I published, wrote, edited, etc., APOCALYPSE, I NEVER reviewed a book (unless there was some kind of personal thing involved.) That's why I can talk about my own books IF AND WHEN I think it will be helpful to the OP, or would be generally, maybe, valuable within the particular thread. Yes, you gave your opinion of my books, and I would certainly give my opinion of YOUR books - but not someone else's. Incidentally, can you point out ANYWHERE where Giobbi (or any other writer - that's important, WRITER of similar books) - has given his opinion of my books? I'm sure it's happened, but rarely, I'm sure. Anyway, that's why you can give your opinion, but I can't. Hope I've explained this simple concept properly.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts
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Harry, you have a good point. I have NEVER seen reviews of your books! Just accolades from "the workers"---those of us who have performed your material for YEARS. My father and cousins and friends refuse to play cards with me because of you! Now THAT's high praise!
And, spartacus, let me know when you want to sell your "junk".
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
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Posted: Mar 27, 2012 11:59 pm 
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