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tsolo New user NYC 61 Posts |
In the Colon graveyard tour, Al the Only states that Karrell Fox's ashes are buried in an Abbott lota bowl. Can only hope that's true.
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Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 2149 Posts |
I hope this is not beating a dead horse, but I am curious about other folks' take on origination of effects.
The gag with the lota is fairly obvious if you have a potty humor mind. Like me... Why is there the assumption that if one person thought of it first, everyone else who does it has to acknowledge this person as the originator? He may be the first, but if I think of it independently, I am also an origninator. Or at least I can claim I came up with it independently. I find it fascinating to see how different cultures come up with similar solutions to similar problems without any verifiable contact between the cultures in question. Is it really so hard to believe that two magicians can come up with the same gag with a spitoon that refills itself? I mean, all they have to do is ask how the liquid gets in there again and look for a way to make it happen. So, the question is, how do folks really feel about independent origination of tricks, gags, and ideas? Do I owe it to someone else not to use an idea that I came up with just because I later found out that someone else figured it out ten years before I (on my own, not copying) came up with the same exact idea? -Patrick |
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iwillfoolu Special user Upstate NY, USA 746 Posts |
This is a case that I can see being easily independently created. All it takes is a puppet and a lota bowl.
Joey D |
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Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 2149 Posts |
I once played around with an idea I had for a grandmother's necklace trick with two volunteers, a scarf, two long ropes, and some bad humor. After working it out on paper and some preliminary experiments, I found a video of Jimmt Talksalot doing MY routine. But with better jokes. Long before I thought of it. If I do my version (which if functionally identical to his), I would not regard myself as a thief because I really did work it out independently.
That said, seeing him use it meant I decided not to develop it to the point of performance. Independent development, same result. I'm no thief and if I had used the routine without ever seeing Jimmy Talksalot's version I would still not be a thief. I'd be someone who came up with the same good idea (but lamer jokes). Question: Given that I'm not a thief, but knowing that someone else developed this first, is it ethical to perform it as my own piece? -Patrick |
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
Well,
Saying to another magician that you invented something that was originally made, before you were privy to it, will rile-up a few who will straighten you out. Manufacturing something, as your own, will only get people riled-up if the original manufacturer is famous. We used to have a sign over the door (of the Brick & Mortar shop) stating, If you insist on showing us your entire routine, which is the same as the directions... If you claim that you invented a trick that's been on the market for 100 years... If you take a few lessons then have the words "Master Magician" put on your business card... There will be a 50 percent aggravation fee added to all purchases. Better to say "Great minds think alike" then "Look at me, look at me."
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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Higgenbottom New user 84 Posts |
I suppose you empty the lota into a confetti bucket?
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
I'm picking up on this thread because I still haven't tried the doll on the lota. I'm not a pro but I do perform from time to time for charities, just to use my collection, practice, and improve my presentations. I do fine and I have fun. So do the kids.
I've used the lota bowl and usually get good response from kids. I'd like to try the doll or animal on the lota, as I mentioned in this very thread a few years ago. I have a show for kids coming up in two weeks in which I'd like to use this take on the lota. Now, this may seem like a stupid question, but when I use the lota I start with it full. So might someone suggest the intro with the doll, animal or whatever on a full lota? Maybe I'm dense. Help appreciated. If you don't wish to expose anything, please feel free to PM me. Many thanks!
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-11-18 00:36, Bob1Dog wrote: In my opinion, that gag is not for children shows. They probably won't get the connection, because some are still using diapers, and others that are potty trained, this is serious business. Some do not have good feelings about this strange thing they have to do each day. You just may make them worse. Second, why do you start with a full Lota, that kills the mystery. The trick is an empty Lota magically fills mysteriously. Again, just not how I would do this running gag. |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-11-18 01:22, Bill Hegbli wrote: Might you give a suggestion or two? I'm not sure I like the doll idea either. I guess I'm not thatwell schooled on the lota. How would you begin the effect if not it being full with water? I'd appreciate any help you might offer here. Thanks. Best, bob
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
PMmd you Bill.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Bob1Dog, PM sent.
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Thanks Bill, you're always a helpful guy!
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-12-10 20:42, tsolo wrote: YES it is true. Karrell's ashes are in a lota bowl. Abb Dickson (undertaker--Georgia) handled the details. We were/are all members of the SECRET SIX, and I specifically remember Karrell making such "arrangements". The Lota needed a lid and Abb fashioned one from a metal salad bowl. Dick Oslund
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Rainboguy Inner circle 1915 Posts |
Dick:
Are you home now? |
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Sorry to say, I'm still incarcerataed in the VA Hospital...They are "shooting" for Dec. 10!
I'll write ASAP when It happens. O
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
I recall seeing someone using a doll and a Lota in the early "50s. He probably got the idea from Bill Mayoh (HOYAM).
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
Need to get you out of the hospital soon so the nurse's behinds can heal from the pinching. Get well soon buddy.
Actually, Abbott's sold something like this years ago. I found it an old tops magazine. The little figurine was on top of the lots bowl. Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
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Rainboguy Inner circle 1915 Posts |
Richard:
When I went to go visit Dick in the hospital a couple of weeks ago, the nurses slapped ME just because I was Dick's friend! |
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Marc DeSouza V.I.P. Wayne, PA 161 Posts |
I believe the doll on the Lota Bowl was Everett "Presto" Johnson's bit. He did it for years around the NYC area. Chris Capehart used to do it as well. I don't know if Chris got permission from Presto to do it.
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
I just found this thread again. Thinking about the doll or ? on the Lota, I now remember seeing it done in the early '40s. So, it's quite possible that it came from Bill Mayhoh's book.
Marc! I wish that I had known Presto. I would have shared my method for the Coin Go with him. I drove the young guy's crazy at the Castle with Coin Go. >>>Francds Mei Ling! Loo gave me the "work" on the TipCee bottle in Kansas about the winter of '74/'75.Your mother and Loo were working a shopping mall (somewhere in Eastern Kansas). He said, "Feel free to use it, since we don't conflict. I'm doing malls and you're working schools." I spent a month finding a suitable bottle. I made a "change" in the method, and worked all summer to build a routine so that I would not be copying your dad's routine. It's a rather simple, basic effect, a bit like Isely's "Anti Gravico". so the basic effect (water suspension) is similar to Loo's effect. Howevef,my theme is much different. The basic method was originated by the late Stewart James, of Ontario,Canada. Percy Abbott listed it in his #7 catalog (and possibly before). It was $1.00. Percy sold only the gimmick. You had to provide your own bottle. Most of the gimmicks were returned as "the gimmick won't fit my bottle". Percy didn't know that milk bottlews were not a standard size across the U.S. The late Bruce Jensen, a magician and good friend, modified my bottle for me. My "science" presentation is so strong, that I CLOSE the High School program with it. I am publishing the presentation in the upcoming book.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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