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mastermindreader
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Don't know. I still haven't figured out why they're Republicans.

But as to whether or not marriage is a right- Yes, it is. If you consider life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness to be unalienable rights, the right to marry the person you love is self evident. Equal rights under the law MEANS equal rights under the law.
balducci
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I am increasingly led to believe that U.S. conservatives will have to take advice from an old British homily in order to get through the next four years.

That is, and if I may be allowed to paraphrase, "Lie back and think of Reagan".
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2012-05-10 05:46, Woland wrote:

After years of waffling, President Obama has just adopted another one of Vice President Cheney's long-standing political positions.

Of course, the huge difference here is that Cheney was only brave enough to make his declaration after he was already OUT of office.

While Cheney was IN office, he fully and publicly supported the proposed Federal Marriage Amendment to the United States Constitution that would limit marriage to heterosexual couples and also ban civil unions and domestic partnership benefits.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
mastermindreader
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That's true. Evidently, Cheney's position was more "long hidden" than "longstanding."
LobowolfXXX
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Another difference is that Cheney was the Veep, and had some onus to toe the administration line, while Obama is the "Decider in Chief," and moreover, the progressive visionary who was supposed to lead us to the Hope and the Change. By "lead," I'd infer that suggests BEFORE Gallup tells him it's ok.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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I remember drawing a few political cartoons satirizing the Bu-eney administration's opposition to gay marriage at the time that were published in a small newsletter put out by a local gay youth group. One of the characters had some elements very loosely based on Cheney, with the daughter and all. In my strip, this character was initially vehemently opposed to any sort of gay rights but ended up having a change of heart, because I love happy endings.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2012-05-10 15:44, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Another difference is that Cheney was the Veep, and had some onus to toe the administration line, while Obama is the "Decider in Chief," and moreover, the progressive visionary who was supposed to lead us to the Hope and the Change. By "lead," I'd infer that suggests BEFORE Gallup tells him it's ok.


Is your bias showing perhaps? Smile (BTW- the polls are hardly clear on whether or not Obama's position will help or hurt him politically. It was hardly a "safe" move from a political perspective. But it certainly was the right one.)
balducci
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Quote:
On 2012-05-10 15:44, LobowolfXXX wrote:

Another difference is that Cheney was the Veep, and had some onus to toe the administration line, while Obama is the "Decider in Chief," and moreover, the progressive visionary who was supposed to lead us to the Hope and the Change. By "lead," I'd infer that suggests BEFORE Gallup tells him it's ok.

Yet Cheney was perfectly willing to go against the administration line on other issues. If not in public, then in private. E.g., war policy, GM bailout, etc. If this was not known publicly at the time, it at least came out in his memoirs after the fact. As far as I know, Cheney has never even hinted that he argued with Bush privately to support gay marriage while they were in office.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2012-05-10 15:44, LobowolfXXX wrote:
. . . I'd infer that suggests BEFORE Gallup tells him it's ok.

At least that way, when you're wrong, it's your fault.
Woland
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Quote:
I still haven't figured out why they're Republicans.


Maybe they are interested in more than one issue. In some cases, they may have been brought up as Republicans by parents who were also brought up as Republicans, and remain faithful to a Party that was founded on the conviction that:

Quote:
That the Constitution confers upon Congress sovereign powers over the Territories of the United States for their government; and that in the exercise of this power, it is both the right and the imperative duty of Congress to prohibit in the Territories those twin relics of barbarism — Polygamy, and Slavery.
mastermindreader
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Could be, but the party is hardly the same party that it was in 1854. But I'm just puzzled by the Log Cabin Republicans' support of a party whose platform specifically would deny marriage rights to them, allows for other forms of discrimination based on sexual orientation, and essentially would make them second class citizens.
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Quote:
On 2012-05-10 15:48, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-05-10 15:44, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Another difference is that Cheney was the Veep, and had some onus to toe the administration line, while Obama is the "Decider in Chief," and moreover, the progressive visionary who was supposed to lead us to the Hope and the Change. By "lead," I'd infer that suggests BEFORE Gallup tells him it's ok.


Is your bias showing perhaps? Smile


I'm sure it is, at least to the extent that everyone brings preconceptions to the table. My bias, however, is not partisan. In particular, I'm not inclined to blast him for his statement (caught about 10 minutes of Rush today...don't get me started), nor to fawn all over him for coming to a rather obvious moral position most of the way through his 40s.

I do think it's perfectly reasonable (certainly for the journalists and commentators out there, for Pete's sake) to both commend the President for his statement, and at the same time ask him where the heck he's been on this issue for the first 85% of his presidency. He's a BIRACIAL CONSTITUTIONAL SCHOLAR. He's read Loving v. Virginia...Plessy v. Ferguson...Brown v. Board of Education... It's not unreasonable to call him out a little.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-05-10 15:55, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-05-10 15:44, LobowolfXXX wrote:

Another difference is that Cheney was the Veep, and had some onus to toe the administration line, while Obama is the "Decider in Chief," and moreover, the progressive visionary who was supposed to lead us to the Hope and the Change. By "lead," I'd infer that suggests BEFORE Gallup tells him it's ok.

Yet Cheney was perfectly willing to go against the administration line on other issues. If not in public, then in private. E.g., war policy, GM bailout, etc. If this was not known publicly at the time, it at least came out in his memoirs after the fact. As far as I know, Cheney has never even hinted that he argued with Bush privately to support gay marriage while they were in office.


That's an excellent counterpoint.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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Lobo-

In essence, then, I agree with you. But I gave a link earlier that gave over forty examples of pro-gay intiatives taken by this administration since 2008 and prior to yesterdays statement by the President. While he may be affirming a de facto status quo, it is nonetheless a status quo that did not exist when he took office and for which he deserves, IMO, substantial credit.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-05-10 16:46, mastermindreader wrote:
Lobo-

In essence, then, I agree with you. But I gave a link earlier that gave over forty examples of pro-gay intiatives taken by this administration since 2008 and prior to yesterdays statement by the President. While he may be affirming a de facto status quo, it is nonetheless a status quo that did not exist when he took office and for which he deserves, IMO, substantial credit.


I agree, and I should have commented on that post. There's something to be said for getting it 98% right.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Woland
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G'day Bob,

With respect to the Washington Post's 47 year old story abo...... pranks:

Quote:
Betsy Lauber, one of John Lauber’s three sisters, spoke with ABC News Tuesday night regarding the accuracy of the story.

“The family of John Lauber is releasing a statement saying the portrayal of John is factually incorrect and we are aggrieved that he would be used to further a political agenda. There will be no more comments from the family,” she said.

Romney has since apologized for what he said were “pranks” in high school but has said he doesn’t remember the specific event.

Romney said “homosexuality was the furthest thing from his mind” when it came to the jokes he played on classmates.

“Even if it did happen, John probably wouldn’t have said anything,” Christine Lauber said.

She added she and her sisters will likely put out a statement later via a family attorney.

“If he were still alive today, he would be furious [about the story],” she said with tears in her eyes.


I am not saying that either this kerfuffle or similar details of the President's back story are necessarily relevant, but in terms of equal-time, has the Washington Post ever covered the President's admitted use of cocaine?
landmark
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I believe Bush's use of cocaine has been pretty well established already.
Woland
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Good morning, landmark, you're up early . . . I was trying to edit my last note when you intervened, to add that one of the Washington Post's alleged witnesses told ABC News a different story:

Quote:
White, in an interview with ABC News, said that he is “still debating” whether he will help the campaign, remarking, “It’s been a long time since we’ve been pals.” While the Post reports White as having “long been bothered” by the haircutting incident,” he told ABC News he was not present for the prank, in which Romney is said to have forcefully cut a student’s long hair and was not aware of it until this year when he was contacted by the Washington Post.
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2012-05-11 06:48, Woland wrote:

I am not saying that either this kerfuffle or similar details of the President's back story are necessarily relevant, but in terms of equal-time, has the Washington Post ever covered the President's admitted use of cocaine?


Here come the retaliatory "But look what he did!" spin. It started almost immediately when the revelation about Romney became public.

The glaring difference is that, as you said, the President freely wrote in his autobiography about his experimentation with cocaine and the playground "He has a girlfriend!" incident that occurred when he was a child in middle school.

Romney, on the other hand, has never published or said anything about the violent assault and battery, committed when he was a high school senior, other than that he doesn't remember (?) - but nonetheless doesn't deny it.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2012-05-11 07:06, Woland wrote:
Good morning, landmark, you're up early . . . I was trying to edit my last note when you intervened, to add that one of the Washington Post's alleged witnesses told ABC News a different story:

Quote:
White, in an interview with ABC News, said that he is “still debating” whether he will help the campaign, remarking, “It’s been a long time since we’ve been pals.” While the Post reports White as having “long been bothered” by the haircutting incident,” he told ABC News he was not present for the prank, in which Romney is said to have forcefully cut a student’s long hair and was not aware of it until this year when he was contacted by the Washington Post.


WP never said White was there. White was not listed as one who witnessed it. From the WP story I posted YESTERDAY.

"A few days later, Friedemann entered Stevens Hall off the school’s collegiate quad to find Romney marching out of his own room ahead of a prep school posse shouting about their plan to cut Lauber’s hair. Friedemann followed them to a nearby room where they came upon Lauber, tackled him and pinned him to the ground. As Lauber, his eyes filling with tears, screamed for help, Romney repeatedly clipped his hair with a pair of scissors. The incident was recalled similarly by five students, who gave their accounts independently of one another. Four of them — Friedemann, now a dentist; Phillip Maxwell, a lawyer; Thomas Buford, a retired prosecutor; and David Seed, a retired principal — spoke on the record. Another former student who witnessed the incident asked not to be identified."

“I always enjoyed his pranks,” said Stu White, a popular friend of Romney’s who went on to a career as a public school teacher and said he has been “disturbed” by the Lauber incident since hearing about it several weeks ago, before being contacted by The Washington Post. “But I was not the brunt of any of his pranks.”
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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