At e risk of (apparently) agreeing with Chance, I, too, think it's unreasonable.

And I didn't notice Danny speaking in favor of the law. All he did was point out some facts that disputed an earlier inanae comment.

I stated WHY I thought the law was reasonable. Why do you think it is unreasonable?

Best-

Bob

I'm on the iPad (with annoying touchscreen) and leaving soon...I'll articulate my thoughts on this when I get home. It would have to be a lengthier post than I'm up for cranking out right now. On a related note, would anyone ok with this law *not* be ok with a government-ordered maximum weight limit in the NFL? All sorts of health issues related to oversized football players, too. I believe the average life expectancy of an NFL player is under 60.

Yeah, you guys sure do hate big government. Except when you don't.

Respectfully, that is an apples and oranges analogy. I assume you would have no problem with laws prohibiting steroid use by professional athletes?

Does Chance even read the comments before he makes one???

From what I can tell, most those here who are normally against big government seem to be against this law. (me included although this is the first I've weighed in.) Those who are generally 'for' big government seem to be for the law. In general. Chance seems to assume anyone who thinks his comments are stupid must mean that they are 'for' the law. Not so, they just think his comments are stupid.

I'm okay with the law (although it's really only Israel's business) because of its underlying rationale. But I agree, Rockwall, Chance's comments don't seem to have anything to do with what what the rest of us on either side are saying.

I think the underlying rationale is mistaken.

Absolutely right sir. I took a position that to say "pick on the skinny girls" was just plain... well insert word here. Then compare it go guns and well it is just out of most peoples ballparks. Chance plays a whole different game so it doesn't require him to be in the ballpark.

I havn't even read it to be honest. But "pick on the skinny girls" REALLY is said without the least bit of information by the poster.

Besides which we all know it is crooked cops who cause anorexia.

Are you saying that the false idea of "beauty" perpetuated by the advertisers (and modeling agencies of the world) does NOT contribute to the very serious problems of bulimia and anorexia? It you are, there's a lot of research that you must disagree with.

Why do you say "false" idea of beauty. I think there has also been research that apparantly disagree with. Or haven't seen possibly.

While it is true that the 'ideal' does seem to change somewhat, I seem to recall research that showed that our perception of 'beauty' is somewhat instinctual. (Man, I hope you're not going to ask me for a link!)

I am saying, Bob, that the advertisers do not create a "false idea" of "beauty" out of thin air; they are responding to what is already in the Zeitgeist. And even if they were to create their own idea of beauty, they would not be able to impose it on a public that did not already desire it. Advertisers seek to align what they are selling with what the public already wants.

Woland, I find your argument interesting because there doesn't seem to be a way to prove or disprove it. Which is it- the chicken or the egg?

Rockwall, I think I know what you're talking about. I recall reading studies where certain body and facial proportions tend to be seen as more attractive; the results were fairly consistant regardless of cultural background.

I think this misses the point. The advertisers are certainly reinforcing a stereotype, and bulimia and anorexia by those who seek to conform to that stereotype is a very real problem.

Rockwall-

Could you please provide a link for your last assertion? (Ignore that, I couldn't resist.)

RedShirt,

I've worked for one of the major marketers/advertisers in the world. I have sat in meetings at which strategy and tactics were discussed. The way I described it, is the way it works. Successful marketers seek to understand their customers' needs and wants, and then frame the story, so that the way their products meet those needs and wants is illuminated. Marketers do not create needs and wants that people do not have.

There has been a change in the ideal of female beauty. Look at paintings from the Renaissance through today, and you will see that. I think the change is related to increasing neoteny. Neoteny is an incredibly important factor in human development, but I think it is getting out of hand.

Woland, something has to fuel that change. The fact that advertisers cater to customer expectations does not explain how those expectations arise in the first place. Certainly one avenue through which "beauty" is conveyed is the media. How many overweight actors/actresses do you see in the movies, television shows, or commercials? How about heavyset news anchors? There are a few, but what percentage are they of the total? Less than 1%? Certainly not one third of the people appearing.

I do believe you when you say that advertising is responding rather than creating- commercials are more likely to feature heavier actors than other media.

On the other hand, the fashion industry isn't the advertising industry. Thumb through a Victoria's Secret catalog and tell me how many chunky models you see. And, apart from specific instances where the whole thing or a full segment is branded as a "plus-size fashion show!" do you ever see an overweight model on the catwalk?

Precisely. The problem is that young woman are exposed daily to an unrealistic standard of beauty set by the fashion and "glamour" industries.

Similar tactics are used on men, but maybe in the opposite direction. See the film "Bigger, Stronger, Faster." I didn't like the way Bell chose to focus mostly on interviewing people who are pro-steroids (even though he, himself, states that he is against them) but the parts on supplement advertising were particularly good. Also has a lot about Hollywood and other media creating a false ideal.

I don't care where these notions of "ideal" or "beauty" or "plus size" come from. I think it's dangerous to endorse them. Have you all seen what constitutes "plus size" for a woman these days? If I have to choose Xlarge clothing to find something that fits, I'm not sure what ladies larger than I are having to "buy" into. Ridiculous.