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Tony Thomas Inner circle North Carolina 1248 Posts |
So, trying not to reveal too much... When a ball is placed on top of a cup & a chopped cup is placed on top of the ball, can most chopped sets make this ball vanish "intrinsically" simply by lifting the chopped cup? Just wondering if this is a typical application, or only something that certain sets would be able do. If so, which sets can do this? Hope I'm clear enough.
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55Hudson Special user Minneapolis 984 Posts |
Tony,
You may want to check out Larry Jennings' routine on WGM Chop Cup DVD. Not exactly the same application you are thinking of, but probably similar enough to give you some ideas Hudson |
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cupsandballsmagic Inner circle 2705 Posts |
That would depend on the strength of the *****, attic space and the size of the ball. Adjustable balls and getting the correct size can help in most cases. Do you have a particular set of cups in mind?
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Of course, this result can be achieved without using a Chop Cup gimmick -- various methods.
It helps "close the door" on spectators when you tip the top cup after the vanish -- thus masking the fact that you are using a Combo set. Really fries magician-spectators as well. The point is that even if you can "pick up" the ball as you suggest you may not want to -- or at least not all of the time. For me it can lead to tipping the method.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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pabloinus Inner circle 1681 Posts |
Johnson's cup can do that, RNT2 Mendoza can do that as well, don't know another makers.
Kent Gunn has a routine that uses this technique and I think he tried several different cups, he is a member here, I suggest you contact him |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
This very deceptive move can be done with the Brett Sherwood cups and balls. Agree with Funsway that this demonstration can really "close the door." But it is the kind of move that may be best done very sparingly, i.e. once.
But you have to be absolutely sure you know which ball is which and which cup is which! LOL. Been there . . . . done that. There are some practitioners who use 3 chopped cups, by the way. |
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Tony Thomas Inner circle North Carolina 1248 Posts |
I have Sherwood cups (aluminum) and this move is not consistent with the deluxe balls or even a lighter set of balls that I have.
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
The excellent chopped balls supplied by RNTII are adjustable, and might help.
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Tony Thomas Inner circle North Carolina 1248 Posts |
I would like to try the RNTII balls. Also, the Sherwood cups are hand spun, so there are slight variations. Maybe this could work consistently with one set and not with another. Just a thought since Woland mentioned it could be done with Sherwood's. Woland, what balls do you use with the Sherwood's to pull this off?
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
I find that the move works with the Sherwood's nickel plated cups that I have, and his deluxe balls. I have two chopped cups, but one is in another location. I will retrieve it and try the move 100 times with each of the chopped cups, and then report to you the % success rate.
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Tony Thomas Inner circle North Carolina 1248 Posts |
Thanks. I'll do the same and report with my cups. Also, can you see variation in your set? Each of mine have slight distinctions.
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
" various methods " There are other ways to achieve this that are not cup design dependant; for example "Ten-Toss" from Kup & Stone Guide. Hate to see anyone buying a set of cups to to achieve one Sleight.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
That's a very good point, funsway. There are many ways of achieving many of the effects. But, on the other hand, a willingness to go to extremes, both in equipment and in personal preparation, simply to accomplish one simple task in what the artists perceives to be the most effective way, may be a mark of genius.
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Tony Thomas Inner circle North Carolina 1248 Posts |
68% for my set with the delux balls. Funsway, I agree with you and I am not suggesting anyone by a set for one slight. I like the point earlier in the thread of NOT using this slight often. I like the idea of varying methods, once with a slight and then again with a gaff. I'm just basically experimenting with my new cups, seeing what they can do, and not do...
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Tony, after a series of experiments with one of my two chopped cups, I think I can confidently say that the issue is not to do with the cups but with the orientation of the ball. If I am careful about the orientation of the ball, the move is 100% reliable. I can also orient the ball so that it doesn't work at all. I don't wish to say any more in this public thread, but if you PM me, I can explain further. Carefully set up and executed, however, I think that this move should be 100% reliable with the Sherwood deluxe manipulation balls and the Sherwood nickel cups. (Incidentally, my old eyes do not detect any differences between the cups, and I tried the experiment with both of the unchopped cups I have at hand.)
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Tony Thomas Inner circle North Carolina 1248 Posts |
The orientation of the ball made a difference to mine as well. I understand exactly what you are describing. Thanks.
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Thanks for helping me improve my own work and thinking, Tony.
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Andrew Zuber Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 3014 Posts |
I have a set of Mendoza cups, a nickel plated Sherwood set, and a Paul Fox mini combo set, and this move works for me 100% of the time with all three sets. I've never had an issue.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
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kentfgunn Inner circle Merritt Island FL 1639 Posts |
Kent Gunn does not have a routine that uses this sleight. Never liked it. Mendoza's routine uses it and I think his routine is seminal though!
KG |
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Donnie Buckley V.I.P. Cleveland, Ohio 1123 Posts |
Gary Ouellet's Two Goblets uses this principle for the second penetration in the opening segment of the routine. It does not tip the gaff. He then used the same principle again with a shot glass covered with a handkerchief.
He used the Camirand Academy Golden Goblets. It is a move that any good combo cup sets should be able to do. I have some tips I could share so that it works "everytime". |
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