ADDENDUM:
I just thought about the above a little bit more. If you use the DL turnover method, you wouldn't have to use a dried-up Sharpie but could instead use a regular Sharpie. Using a regular Sharpie, you just write a predictiction that closely approximates the business card message. You can briefly flash the blank card and, after writing the "prediction", flash the "prediction" and then turn the DL back over and thumb off the gimmicked card onto the table. Put the rest of the cards in your pocket (keeping the just written "prediction" card handy for switching, if necessary).

In this regard, you could actually make an alternate business card (for handout purposes) right under the noses of the audience members!! Then, if necessary, a simple switch of cards allows you to cover "another" of the prediction outcomes.

Time to go back on my meds. (grin)

Anyone care to post the spectator reactions to this while I wait for the Sarge to return?

I think having a stack of cards makes it look like a magic trick and not clean mentalism. The beauty and strength of this is that you have only one card!

I have had a couple of people mention this item to me and have now seen it. It uses an entirely different method than my "Assertive, Positive, Negative." I am biased of course, but I prefer my version as it is completely gimmickless, using verbal manipulation, and so can be done at any time with any card or piece of paper, and the card can be given to the spectator immediately, regardless of the reponses. I personally prefer writing the prediction in front of them at the time--to me, that strengthens the effect.

However, I feel that mindhunter's solution is very clever, and will be liked better by those who prefer a gimmick and some minor handling over verbal manipulation--it feels more like you are DOING something. Some people like that better, and those people will like his version better. But I wanted to make clear that he does not need to credit me in any way, nor did he in any way steal from me--we have two entirely different approaches to the problem.

My main concern with Maven's routine was that with one answer, you couldn't give the card out. So my routine was structured to make you "right" regardless of the answer and still be able to hand the card out. Mindhunter's solution doesn't allow you to hand the card out for one answer, but the card is in view the entire time and can be clearly seen, so that may not even be an issue. The only reason I wanted to hand it out was because it is on my business card, and it didn't make sense to me to do a trick with my card and then not give it to them half the time. Others may have legitimate and reasoned dissenting opinions.

Regardless, this is a very clever and strong version, and I have no doubt that it plays extremely well.

Scott,

My point exactly in suggesting the handlings I enumerated in my prior posts. To not hand out your business card when you have an opportunity to do so reminds me of a pahaphrase of a famous quote: "An 'unhanded out' business card is a terrible thing to waste". (grin)

BTW, is your "Assertive, Positive, Negative" effect a separate marketed effect or is it included in one of your books?

Mike

It is not a separate effevt, because it is merely a verbal manipulation of the Maven routine. I wrote Max about it a number of years ago and he told me he had not heard of anyone doing it that way, and that he thought it was a clever application. Since it Max's routine with my embellishment, I do not market it separately. It's in my book, "Great scott! It's More Magic!" I do not explain the whole routine, just my "tangent" on it, so you need to already know the Maven routine.

Hey guys...I just got back from the cruise and am glad to see some great ideas in these recent posts. I only have a few minutes on the comp. tonight (excited black lab puppy, unpacking, etc...lol)

The Carribean as always is great and I got to perform a lot of impromptu mentalism & magic at the bars and clubs on the ship. And Businesscoin got some great spectator reactions.

I'm glad I have the next couple of days off as I have a whole bunch of orders to get packaged and mailed and want to respond to some of the great ideas posted above.
Thanks!
Bryn

SGT,

Welcome back....okay I just ordered it via Paypal.
Since Im only a police detective, you think it will still work?

Wayne

Thanks for the order, Wayne.
Detective, Sergeant, Investigator or civilian... believe me, it WORKS (I must have done this 40 times on the cruise...even re-setting RIGHT IN FRONT of them due to the bar/drinking atmosphere and the "here-do that again for them!" requests")

I think the piano player / Billy Joel impersonator (who was GREAT bty) was getting ***** because of the crowd wanting to see BusinessCoin, my version of Kolossal, In The MOOD Ring which I wore the entire time, and I think the rest of the impromptu mentalism I keep in my wallet that was creating a disturbance. I even got invited behind the bar to perform.

All in all a great vacation....lots of scuba diving and beach time. I thank you all for the orders I received while I was gone and got caught up on the majority of them today - tomorrow I want to touch on the great ideas listed in this forum from the last few days...120 emails and counting....I'm almost cought up and some GREAT ideas have been coming in which I will post here....
Thanks!
Bryn

Anyways thanks for all the orders

Mind Hunter,

I see you mentioned Kenton as an inspiration in the beginning. I assume you are referring to his effect on Wonder Words? I can't recall which volume at the moment.

I do my variation of KK's effect, and as with his and unlike Positive/Negative, you can ALWAYS hand out the card when you are done. There are absolutely no moves, just verbal deception that is extremely clean. There is nothing to get rid of. In the reviews, while all I'm sure deservedly positive, I didn't note any comments on why there is an advantage over KK's version. Would you care to enlighten me?

Bill

Hi Bill. I never claimed any "advantage" over any of Kenton's work nor a reference to his published effect being an inspiration to BusinessCoin. It is merely some of his methods of communication have filtered their way into my performances and therefore into the style with which I detail the presentation of BusinessCoin in the instruction sheets.

While some verbal deception is of course necessary for most mentalism effects, and can certainly enhance the others, SOMETIMES we do have to use gimmicks. My using a little gimmick on BusinessCoin during it's "development phase" was what made me the most comfortable in being to honestly stress to the spectator, with no equivoque whatsoever, that the final outcome was completely up to them.

I hope those that have this agree that my "compromise" of using a gimmick balances out nicely not having the outcome of the routine based on verbal deception (that can sometimes be reverse-engineered if it is the SOLE modus for a single linear effect - but that's a topic for a whole other post!)

Bryn

Having a feeling this will play a strong impact.
Anxiously awaiting it.

Will some who have posted reviews in the beginning please post their spectator experiences/reactions.

Thanks

Hi Bryn,

I never said that you said that your effect had an advantage over Kenton's, I only pointed out that you didn't give any reason to suspect there was. As for my mistakenly thinking you said that Kenton's effect influenced yours, I apologize. I guess I took what was a general comment as a reference to the specific effect. My bad.

I am still curious; are you familiar with the very similar effect described in Wonder Words? If so, can you be more specific about what you meant by, "I hope those that have this agree that my "compromise" of using a gimmick balances out nicely not having the outcome of the routine based on verbal deception."

Also, you said that, "My using a little gimmick on BusinessCoin during it's "development phase" was what made me the most comfortable in being to honestly stress to the spectator, with no equivoque whatsoever, that the final outcome was completely up to them." From what I read, and if I'm making a false assumption I apologize in advance, I got the impression the first phase, as in most versions I know, does require equivoque. I don't consider this a bad thing by the way, using equivoque with pride and pleasure. So do you mean that the first phase uses equivoque but the final outcome does not (as is the case in Positive/Negative and Kenton's version)? Just looking for some clarification. If answering requires risking the secret, please PM me.

Thanks,

Bill

Bill:

You wrote "In the reviews, while I'm sure deservedly positive, I didn't note any comments on why there is an advantage over KK's version" so therefore I thought you were under the impression that I thought this was. I DO think that, actually, and for the reasons I described above...lol...."compromise."

To ME, "compromise" means any technique used to achieve a particular effect. If you THINK of a number and I know what it is, there is no compromise. Then I wouldn't be on these forums discussing conjuring. If you name a number and I can show I have previously written it down through use of a NW, then the NW becomes my "compromise." If I could vanish silks into my hand for real I wouldn't need my "compromise" of a TT. And if I could REALLY have previously predicted which coin you would choose and predict how you chose it to land, I wouldn't be selling my $8 BusinessCoin trick on a magic forum, now would I?

I am VERY familiar to Wonder WOrds & I love using verbal deception to achieve an effect as much as possible...I carry a KILLER version of Killer in my wallet at all times and wear a necklace with a grain of rice inscribed with a circle intertwined with a triange but sometimes a SURE THING has to be employed and that is where BusinessCoin comes in... (again, always in my wallet.) I hope that is specific enough about using compromises.

And as far as methods, I think you will understand why I don't detail any Wonder Words thinkings that influence me....they aren't mine, but DO permeate my magical thinking and proceeding with an EFFECT. As I won't discuss BusinessCoin, since I SELL it, in greater detail than to say I DO use subtle verbal subterfuge WITH the combination of a gimmick, to lead them down that holly-grail of a garden path to a freely chosen conclusion...
Hey, for 8 bucks postage-paid it won't break the wallet...if you don't like it I'll refund the $...or else use the principle in a card trick (whoa!..that got me thinking!....lol)
Bryn

I wanted to hit a little on Turk, Sludge, etc. hit on above and a little but on the PMs regarding combining Xpert-type "X" gimmicks into BusinessCoin.

I have to agree with Sludge that a stck of cards can take away from the "clean" look of this UNLESS you normally carry a rubberbanded stack in your pocket. For me however, I like the idea of just one thin BusinessCoin card in my wallet. (I carry cards that I may hand out in a seperate UPC case.)

And Turk, if you wanted this seem more "impromptu," you wouldn't even have to use a dried out Sharpie: just feint writing the prediction on the back of the BusinessCoin card using a regular Sharpie (or a Xpert!)
Simply use your fingernail to trace over some of the letters alreay written; this way they get an auditory effect of you writing, as well as the spell of the Sharpie.

One could have their business cards made "Xpert- friendly," & make up BusinessCoin using these new cards. After an Xpert routine, ring in a BusinessCoin Card and feint writing the prediction on the back and proceed ala the climax to BusinessCoin detailed in the instructions. I would love to hear some of your ideas here or in PM routining BusinessCoin and Xpert.

Thanks!
Bryn

Why feint at all? You could legitimately write the whole thing (almost) after a casual display of what people would assume was a blank card back. Doing it in advance and then pretending to do it again is just making yourself work harder and creating an unnecessary move.

Quinn

Quinn,

I like the idea of making up the gimmicked portion of the BusinessCoin Prediction card (and hiding it as you display a "blank" business card) and then filling in all the rest of the card writing that is "outside" the gimmick as you talk to the audience member.

And I agree with Mindhunter and Sludge...the single card is cleaner in one respect. The only "downside" is not being able to hand out the card if the participant "guesses wrong". Of course, if you have an "alternate card" already in your wallet or pocket and you can do a switch, you are "good to go" in any event.

Mindhunter's effect is great just the way it is. Quinn's suggestion makes the effect even stronger (provided you are comfortable with the minimum sleight of hand necessary to hide the gimmick).

However, I don't believe taking a small stack of business cards out of your case and using the business card case as a "table" is necessarily unduly complicated. I made my DL suggestion because it allows a completely blank business card to be freely displayed and seen as a totally blank card. Not the end all or be all--just a suggestion as an alternate handling that some might like to experiment with.

And again, my suggestions were not intended as a criticism of Mindhunter's excellent effect. They were just some brainstorming ideas that intrigued me as I thought of the many ways that this excellent effect might otherwise be presented and which I wanted to experiment with and share with others to see if they might stimulate the creative juices of our community.


My main reason for not just reaching into your wallet and pulling out an already-prepared prediction card was because I felt it might play stronger as a prediction (and more impromptu) if you could be seen as tailoring a prediction to a particular participant at a particular time AFTER asking him a series of innocuous questions (What type of music is your favorite? Favorite color? Right or left handed? Well, you get the picture). Then, AFTER asking these questions, you then make your prediction (on a blank card) based upon the personal information received by that participant. Quinn's method is equally good (and maybe better than my DL method) for filling in a card on the spot. And, following Mindhunter's suggestion (I think) of switching the card, if necessary, allows the card to be handed out at the end.

Again, just some jazz riffs and variations on a theme. Some may work for you, some may not. Some you might like better than others. Some may work better for you than others. Please don't get locked into a mind set that there is one "right" or correct answer. None are 100% perfect. All have weaknesses. All have little bits of business to do to get "clean". If they didn't, we'd all be doing real magic. (grin)

Mike

P.S. Just thought of this POSSIBLE idea: On a stack of business cards, from the top down you have:

Blank card
Gimmicked card
More blank cards (4-5?).

Take this stack out of your business card case and place the stack on top of your business card case. Turn over the top card and write a prediction predicting a different coin/different result from that shown on your gimmicked card. Think about it for a minute and visibly disgustedly scratch it out and crumple it up and drop it on the table. Next do the suggested DL method (filling in the "alternate" card) and table the gimmicked card and return the other cards to your business card case (including the just prepared "alternate card"). Too complicated? Will the extra handling be justified by extra impact of the original "miss"? I don't know. It's just something else I just thought about (as I sat here in free-wheeling brainstorm mode) that might or not be viable.

NICE ideas, Guys!
Quinn's idea of hiding the gimmick as you show the card blank (without stating so, of course) is great if you happen to have a Sharpie on you. It does make for a nice impromptu look. And there isn't any "slieght" to it at all - those that have this know that with Quinn's idea the card can be held completely naturally with just two fingers and shown to be "normal."
And Turk, the "blow-off" you mention at the end of your post could be STRONG! You KNOW they are going to open up that crumpled card after you leave! Very nice indeed.

I love hearing these variations on this and have gotten some nice ones in PM as well. I have had some great feedback that for the $8 it has opened up some lines of thinking. I myself have been using the methodology of the gimmick for predictions other than the coins. Combined with some others ideas I've been working on I think I'm up to about 8 outs on the back of one business card....

Just received this today and so far the reactions have been very good. The packaging was very professional.
I have transfered it over to my business card which only took a few minutes. Thanks Bryn.

Very nice, Sapolice...
I'm glad you enjoy and I KNOW you will have fun with this. Thanks.
Bryn

Quinn, I love your idea of writing it out there and then, especially with Turks presentation!