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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24314 Posts 
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One of the things I miss about my wife was that she was the ideal audience for magic. If she liked a presentation, EVERYONE would like it. If she didn't, she would tell you so you could make it better.
She hated most linking ring routines, for example. But when she saw Vernon do his routine, she enjoyed it and told me so. That set the bar fairly high for me. I came up with a routine that she really liked. It was totally different from the Vernon routine. And it went over very well when I performed it at Renaissance festivals. BTW, here's one hint about doing magic. If you do lines while you are doing your routine, make sure that they actually add something to your routine. If a line is supposed to be funny, and it doesn't get a laugh, get rid of it. Or work on the timing. Don't get "married" to your material. If you do, you will never be able to improve it when it needs improving.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts
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Y'all will be able to study Master Palmer's ring routine in my book, "The Real Secret of the Chinese Linking Rings." Should be ready to deliver mid-May. PM me for details.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-04-20 00:52, kentfgunn wrote: I don't have an absence of moves. I just don't use them to entertain an audience. I don't think I have any footage of my cups routine yet. When I do, I'll let you know. I'm also now writing all this because I've figured everything out or because I think my routine is better than average. I'm just expressing my thought and sharing what I've learned from experience.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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cupsandballsmagic Inner circle 2705 Posts
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I believe that a performer has to differentiate and dissociate "caring" on different levels.
I think it's entirely appropriate for a performer to care about details like ball visibility, the apparent absense of any sleights, the quality of the props used, the weight of the balls, working surface and take all of this into account in order to make it the best performance in a technical sense... but to believe that the audience cars at all about these tings is very naive at best. The real challenge is creating a performance that people are engaged in and hopefully entertained while making all the technical aspects (that as a performer you obsessed about) fade into the background. It's also important to make it congruent to the environment such a street, dinner party, impromptu etc. 99% of routines people perform at magic clubs would die a terrible death on the street. As for the sequences, nope the audience (in most cases) don't care about either. It's all about the final loads. I would be highly dissapointed if nobody spoke about the final loads and walked away saying; "Well, he had a ball in each cup and then they went to the middel, after that the ball in the middle went to the end..." |
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Filip VR New user 14 Posts
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Thinking about the balls...I think there is one routine in which I cared about the balls. It's Paul Gertners steel balls routine. But Frank is right: I cared for the surprise (that they might jump without being noticed.)
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts
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It is not just about the final loads. As Ken Brooke used to preach, "It's the journey through your act, or routine, that makes it."
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-04-20 11:11, Pete Biro wrote: :thumbsup: I keep wanting to point to Tommy Wonder's routine for this, although you could argue it is also still about the "final" loads, they just aren't exclusively at the "finale." However, he structured it such that the routine those loads, and the rest of the routine, accentuate each other so well, such that the load IS (part of) the routine, but not that the routine is just ABOUT the load, if that makes sense. I like to think my routine is about more than the final loads, but then I imagine many of us like to think that. Mine is largely based off of Wonder's brilliant routine, I have a similar "surprise" in the middle, but it's not the final load, and it progresses the routine in such a way that helps make it, IMHO, something that is memorable beyond just the final loads.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts
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I think surprises are a key to modern entertainment as far as magic goes.
I mostly do a comedy stand-up act and I try to have a lot of unexpected surprises along the way. I find the impact and reactions are as powerful as a great "magic moment". Speaking of Tommy Wonder and surprises, I love his "appearing egg" on the table. Wonderful stuff.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Donnie Buckley V.I.P. Cleveland, Ohio 1123 Posts
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TW's Appearing Egg is wonderful because he asks, "Did YOU lay the egg?"
It's not just an unexpected surprise. It's a loaded question, full of weirdness - the implications of the question are bizarre and puts the poor spectator-that-has-been-asked-the-question's mind into a tail spin. For everyone else seeing the rapport - it's hilarious. It's one of those situations where the spectator's response has all the potential to be entertainment gold. |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24314 Posts
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I'm not sure where I read this. It might have been in <i>Our Magic</i>, or perhaps in one of the Fitzkee books.
Surprises must be somehow related to what we are doing. For example, if we are doing a cups and balls routine, and one of the final loads is a rotten banana, there must be a way of tying it in to what we have been doing. There is basically a "range of acceptable surprises."
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-04-22 18:16, Bill Palmer wrote: As anyone who has ever given their wife a vacuum for an anniversary present can attest 
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-04-22 18:16, Bill Palmer wrote: Precisely! In simplest terms, relevance is key. The finale, final loads, climax, or whatever we choose to call it, is relevant to the preceding action. Think of it as an exclamation point at the end of a statement. It signifies the end, but in a stronger way than, say just a period. The action doesn't just end, it ends with a statement about itself. The climax is an augmentation to the statement. But, to think "it's all about the final loads", is the same as saying the exclamation point itself is the whole point of the statement. This is naive to the extreme.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts
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Just reposting because it touched me. And the Café doesn't have a like button.
Quote: ...HAVE FUN! Fun is contagious. Laymen don't care if you use a false transfer or if you use a machine that does the work for you on your right arm. Entertain! Entertain!Entertain! There are some FISM level routines that are BORING to laymen.... do what works for you and ENTERTAIN!
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-04-22 21:40, Michael Baker wrote: Well, one of the reasons why some of us say "It's all about the final loads" is because that's the memory of the effect as a whole. I'd say it's wishing thinking for a magician to expect that a spectator is going to remember the nuances of a gathering phase or a penetration phase as much as they're going to remember "...and then there was all this fruit that came out of nowhere!" Obviously, in order to get the most out of the final loads, you've got to properly leverage the specific aspects of the preliminary phases so that at the moment they're being performed, they're sufficiently engaging and entertaining.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Andrew Zuber Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 3017 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-04-22 21:21, Payne wrote: That sucks.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
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cupsandballsmagic Inner circle 2705 Posts
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Quote:
But, to think "it's all about the final loads", is the same as saying the exclamation point itself is the whole point of the statement. This is naive to the extreme. That seems to have negated everything I said previous to that. Perhaps I worded it incorrecltly? In terms of what the audience talks about afterwards, the biggest impact is the final loads, of course the journey is just as important. My poor choice of wording "it's all about the final loads" didn't help, however a little slack and reading between the lines might have been appropriate after the words that preceeded those! |
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billappleton Inner circle Los Gatos, California 1154 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-04-23 05:22, cupsandballsmagic wrote: That's a problem I have with the c & b. sometimes "the journey" is a confusing jumble of balls moving around. people need to be sure the journey is BUILDING to the final loads. the somewhat simplified presentation of the benson bowl is a little easier to follow in terms of building. |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts
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Without the initial phases, the final loads have no meaning or surprise.
The size difference gives the surprise. The change to fruit is absurd, adding comedy. Building during the initial phases can be done but no matter what you do, I suspect most layman are: a. trying to figure it out b. seeing it as a juggling expose Presentation help create the "journey", however I fear that still many of us still think an audience is going to be entertained during the initial phases with lines like... "Now I know what you're thinking. You're thinking I wonder if he can..." "Wouldn't it be great if I could get ball "A" over to ...." "The ball went down last time. I wonder if I can ..." Entertaining to anyone???? How are you going to entertain a room of 300 people with lines like that? You're not.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts
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300 people? All at once? Do the linking Rings and Egg Bag (classics).
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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cupsandballsmagic Inner circle 2705 Posts
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Isn't that true of any form or entertainment (let alone trick) though Frank? You've got to breathe soul into it.
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Posted: Apr 20, 2012 05:45 am 
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