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chappy Special user 764 Posts 
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"Direction is the challenge. To find something of interest to engage them for even a moment." I agree.
Some of my favourites include: a magical happening a revelation or outcome a puzzle(that begs a solution) an interesting object that begs picking up or examining a surprise a welcome or needed explanation and perhaps at the top of my list: something that THEY suspect similarly, something they are already sure or convinced of(perhaps having been 'accidentally but unknowingly revealed') And finally an accident or fumble offers great opportunities to direct attention.
FARO FUNDAMENTALS, DETAILS OF DECEPTION and THE DEVIL'S STAIRCASE at www.thedevilsstaircase.com
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MuscleMagic Special user 794 Posts
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Here are a few tips some common sense
first off, if you are quiet the eyes go to the deck looking at them and asking a question works but when dealing with more of a smarter audience you must work on really getting them to calm down, and that's done by simply telling them that you havent really gotten into the trick, or that its not the most amazing trick, etc. tell them feel free to watch closely what I'm doing, this is not one of those tricks that rely much of any slight of hand, the worst thing one can do is a) tell them in advance what you are about to do, i.e. I will get your card to change colors or whatever b) tell them its a really amazing trick |
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-04-13 00:36, kentfgunn wrote: Thanks, Kent-- but I tend to rely on making the audience laugh too much... LOL I think that there are more lessons in properly performed Card Magic than most would expect. I can immediately think of one or two regarding the DL, a few regarding palming and even a few in relation to Card Controls. But I guess my main point here is this: I hear the "do it on the offbeat" advice all the time and from what I can see, it means different things to different people. My view is that this means it's a fairly usesless expression which translates in to fairly useless (or too general) advice. Yet it's STILL repeated consistently as if it were a panacea. And the fact is, it's not that simple of a subject, so catchphrases aren't helping people learn. SEY |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-04-15 23:48, Steven Youell wrote: Can you offer some examples that show this to be the case?
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-04-16 00:43, The Burnaby Kid wrote: You want me to list and describe my conversations and/or observations that have taken place over the last 20 to 30 years? Nah... I'm too tired. Let's just use the varying opinions in this thread: Quote:
On 2012-04-12 19:59, Breather wrote: Quote:
On 2012-04-12 20:06, Vincero wrote: Quote:
On 2012-04-12 21:15, bluemagic wrote: SEY |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts
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Those seem to be three relatively consistent descriptions of an offbeat.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-04-16 00:56, The Burnaby Kid wrote: Well I didn't think so. All three were interesting though. But even if they were consistent, my opinion stands. It's based on my personal experience(which I think I made clear). That phrase has been a bug under my rug for almost 20 years and I've probably paid much more attention to it than most and much more attention to it than I should. Almost without exception, every time I hear it I ask the person what they mean by it. The answers are almost always different from the previous ones. But maybe you have the answer to my question! I'll make the question specific: Give me a solid definition of the phrase "Do it on the offbeat" that is easy to understand in relation to magic and doesn't destroy the musical definition of "offbeat". If possible, in one paragraph...? SEY |
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Vincero Veteran user New Zealand 379 Posts
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I've tried to post this message three times now. It appears three times, apologies:
Steven, I get your gripe with the term. Probably a fine example of why analogies must be used carefully. Regards, Zac
"Which way I fly is Hell; myself am Hell; And in the lowest deep a lower deep
Still threat'ning to devour me opens wide, To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heav'n" -John Milton, (Paradise Lost) |
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Vincero Veteran user New Zealand 379 Posts
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If* it appears
"Which way I fly is Hell; myself am Hell; And in the lowest deep a lower deep
Still threat'ning to devour me opens wide, To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heav'n" -John Milton, (Paradise Lost) |
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Hugh Entwistle Regular user 177 Posts
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The greatest misdirection is to look up and ask them a question that they answer, this directs them away from the cards and makes them compose a response to your question plus having to look at you while they speak.
The best question you can say is "Have you ever seen this kinda thing before?" or "Do you remember your card? Make sure you remember it otherwise this trick is kinda a waste of time!" - this question can also make the spectator chuckle or smile at the remark which will misdirect them further. The above work for laymen most of the time, fellow magicians might be a bit trickier so it would be wise to routine your effect so that your move is offbeat and out of focus (the spectator will think the 'prediction' or whatever will be more important at that moment. PLAN your routine wisely and practise your sleights so that they don't NEED misdirection and are invisible! |
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pepka Inner circle Uh, I'm the one on the right. 5041 Posts
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The term misdirection itself is misdirection. It insinuates that the performer distracts the performer at the appropriate moment. Tommy Wonder, Ammar and others have actually referred to it more appropriately as direction or focus.
My favorite story when talking about misdirection- Many years ago, at a David Williamson lecture during the description of an effect he says, "OK, so now here, you do a pass to get the card to the top." Everyone is burning him. He looks up and says "Have you ever seen Harry Lorayne do a pass? Most said no. "Well, we'll take a break in 10 minutes and you can go ask him, he just walked in." 45 heads turned in unison and looked at the back of the room, where I was standing. I knew Harry hadn't come in, and just saw David make one straight cut of the deck instead of a shift. |
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Steve Friedberg Inner circle 1402 Posts
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Pep:
Similarly, Steven Youell has made the same point at his lectures for years; he tells magicians that the pass was never meant to be seen, but challenges them....telling them, "I will do a pass and you will not see it." He then openly holds a break, pointing out the card to be passed. His hands flinch, he says, "done," and he then tosses the top card of the deck to the table. They turn over the top card and it's not the chosen card. When they say something to the effect of, "that's not my card," he replies, "I didn't say it was....I merely said you would not see the pass." He turns over the top card of the deck. Et voila. I have shown this to countless magicians (with Steven's permissions, of course). 90% of them go for it hook, line and sinker. Which is good.
Cheers,
Steve "A trick does not fool the eyes, but fools the brain." -- John Mulholland |
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Dorian Rhodell Inner circle San Francisco, CA. 1633 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-04-16 09:50, Hugh Entwistle wrote: Well I hope that this is not taken the wrong way but I find most of this advice to be horrible. Hopefully I can make my point clear. First, getting people to look up during a magic trick is not as easy as it seems. Primarily this is due to the inherent conflict between the audience and the magician. It is my duty to keep them from figuring out the secrets to my magic and I enter into the performance assuming they are going to try and figure the trick out. Please note that I do NOT challenge the audience. Even if I can get the audience to look up and the dirty work is done, now I have to worry about cause and effect relationships that can lead a person to an answer (or an educated guess). To me they are pretty much the same and both ruin the effect. Its easy enough for anyone to say I snuck a ball under a cup when they weren't looking. My game plan is simple. I perform for a group of people, spot the ones that are displaying behaviors as mentioned and I treat them as the leaders. Then, I take out the leaders. If I can nail that one person(s), chances are I'm going to nail everyone else in the audience. As for magicians, that's a different story altogether. Invisible sleights won't help you there. You have to resort to sneakier tactics. Best, Dorian Rhodell |
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-04-17 16:08, Dorian Rhodell wrote: 1) You're right. Along with some of the other advice. 2) Stop it. I'm supposed to be the Evil Twin. You're the Good one. SEY |
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metaljohn Loyal user Montreal, QC 280 Posts
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Card College is just what you're looking for. You'd be amazed how much misdirection Roberto Giobbi teaches for each sleight. I read Volume 1 and 2 after already knowing 90% of what was tought. He goes into detail. He always says to never show importance to a sleight. He teaches you where to direct your gaze and when. Roberto is a true nerd when it comes to card magic. He's studied every master out there. After CC, explore other books. Harry Lorayne has some pretty good misdirection that he teaches throughout his books.
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-04-17 16:31, metaljohn wrote: Not consistently. I haven't checked out all the sleights he teaches, but his advice on the Top Change is abysmal. SEY |
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metaljohn Loyal user Montreal, QC 280 Posts
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Steven, I think it's a lot better than what was explained in Royal Road. I actually found Roberto's tips to be quite helpful. What are your recommendations?
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts
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Metaljohn, I PM'd you so as not to disrupt the thread more than I already have...
SEY |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts
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There is a great way Erdnase used misdirection and creating the moment to do the move - in Expert at the card table. I enjoyed reading it as a lesson when I read Vernon's comments on it - and the moment and how Erdnase created the moment to do the work - in the Vernon comment section of Revelations.
Just a few thoughts.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Dorian Rhodell Inner circle San Francisco, CA. 1633 Posts
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Bish,
Do you mean changing the moment? |
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Posted: Apr 14, 2012 01:42 am 
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