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Owen Mc Ginty
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not a stupid user, a special user.
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Well?
If you never fail, you're not trying hard enough.
Zerububle
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Because I thought it would be a good place to discuss a topic very dear to me. To learn from discussion and debate. To grow in shared knowledge and understanding... Turned out to be very different... sadly
quicknotist
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Yes. Very well, thank you. How are you?

Quote:
On 2012-04-21 09:48, Owen Mc Ginty wrote:
Well?
Shrubsole
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Quote:
On 2012-04-21 11:20, Zerububle wrote:
Because I thought it would be a good place to discuss a topic very dear to me. To learn from discussion and debate. To grow in shared knowledge and understanding... Turned out to be very different... sadly


Well that's another dream shattered James. Smile

Personally I come here to make sure I'm doing it right. When comes the time that I start agreeing with certain individuals, then it's time to give up!
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
TonyB2009
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I have no idea why I am here. Very little useful discussion on the art of stage hypnotism takes place here.
Mindpro
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Wow, as simple of a questions as it is, but it has made me think. I originally came here when I discovered the Café because most forums on the net about hypnosis were almost always based on or for hypnotherapy. When these forums did discuss stage hypnosis it was from the hypnotherapists perspectives not n entertainers perspective. They simply do not get it at all. To them they think becaus ethey are skilled in hypnosis they too can simply do stage hypnosis. Terrible.

Other than stage hypnosis center (which was a public forum at the time) there was not much on the web for stage hypnosis. I was directed here and it was refreshing to have stage hypnosis being talked about and shared so specifically. I enjoyed it. Magic really wasn't that present in this forum. Stage Hypnosis Center became a membership forum based on paying for it or ordering products to stay active. After having spent thousands there to be excluded by this change and not being grandfathered in caused me to spend more time here.

I really liked the level of professional performer here and there commitment to progressing and furthering the art of stage hypnosis at that time.

That has all changed and is long gone. Many of those pros left claiming this place was becoming more of a joke. I do understand what they were saying but chose to remain. Today, there has been a big shift to less professionals and more newbies, enthusiasts or kids recently discovering performance hypnosis, or magicians that also do hypnosis. This of course combined with the street hypnosis or impromptu hypnosis and the huge UK shift, has made this forum lose much of it's former appeal (no offense).

Now I basically remain here because of friends I have made, to offer info for those that are here for stage hypnosis that I feel I can offer some insight or input based on my experience, and I guess the third reason I hang around is to stay up with our art. Even though I don't care for the UK mentalities and the newer forms of performance hypnosis, this place allows me to stay up on it to some degree, while wondering where true stage hypnosis is headed. This place has also allowed me to truly understand there are some differences in our areas and cultures as it pertains to performing stage hypnosis.

I do think it's a shame that since this forum is UK dominated, and stage hypnosis is not as popular or strong there as it is in the states, as this board seems dominated by UK thoughts and perceptions.

Although there hasn't been much in months, I do enjoy when the business side of stage hypnosis gets brought up and discussed.
Owen Mc Ginty
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And what would you like to have happen now?
If you never fail, you're not trying hard enough.
edwardsausagefingers
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I thunk, therefore I erm...
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Free Jaffa Cakes would be nice.
Zerububle
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And a nice cup of tea to dunk'em in.
Owen Mc Ginty
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What kind of "nice" are those free Jaffa cakes Edward?
and what kind of "nice" is that cup of tea James?
If you never fail, you're not trying hard enough.
mindpunisher
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In the archives on this forum there has been a wealth of information shared on here. The forum has come to a place where there is very little left to share.

There are weeks of research on here if you care to look for it.

This place is a joke where newbies, mental retards and teenagers argue with those that have and do make a living from hypnosis.

The truth is anything that's worth talking about has already been covered.

I have a few distinctions and personal discoveries that I wouldn't share here Im sure most do.
Shrubsole
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"stage hypnosis is not as popular or strong there as it is in the states"

Well that would be mainly due to our crippling laws and requirements to put on Stage Hypnosis. Whilst not stopping anyone who wants to pursue this art, they do tend to put off new blood trying to set up and start a career in Stage Hypnosis as a lot give up trying when faced with all the red tape. They figure that running a mobile disco with regular bookings is easier to do.

It also played more than a little part in the boosting of more impromptu, less formal hypnosis as there is nothing to get the people on the street doing something on the streets than banning it and prohibiting it.

So we in the UK are a produce of the environment.

I'm sure many in the UK would love to put on big shows every week in even bigger venues, but they have closed then all the big places down and throw red tape in the face of anyone wanting to do a hypnosis show. That then breeds a society that are not use to going out to a big show of any kind and don't have much idea about what happens at a hypnosis show or if they would want to go to one.

So it's an uphill battleground here in the UK. Even after working hard and getting through the red tape you then have to find either a place that want to risk a show with little support or fund one yourself with little chance or return. And with the financial state at the moment, no one is trying things out and letting them build, it's try one half-hearted go at it and then don't do it again as not many showed up.

So that is the shape of things here in the UK and why it it that shape in the first place.
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
Mindpro
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Exactly. I'm glad you elaborated as I didn't have the time when posting to get into the details as I expected most here understood this reasoning.

As for Owen's question as to what I'd like to see happen, it doesn't really matter, except I hang around for stage topics when they do pop up.

I still feel that a good comedy stage hypnosis show is one of the best forms of live entertainment available. Nearly 99% of all the posts here are from the hypnotists (or wannabe hypnotists) point of view. Stage hypnosis is really about he audience, and their point of view. I'd like to see things get more into the workings of stage hypnosis and a good stage hypnosis show. Success comes from the audience on many levels.

The problem is this (and also how and why things are different from "the good old days" on this forum), in the past everyone here was on the same page, coming from the same place, with the same interests (yes there were differences, but from coming from the same place). It was about stage hypnosis, not street or impromptu, not therapy, not techniques such as with or without trance, etc. Once this occurs and everyone understands this and is on the same page, coming from the same place, only then it is possible to get into the workings, mechanics and the good stuff, the meat of discussion.

I don't see that happening for the simple reason that those from your side of the pond don't and can't view stage hypnosis from the same perspective as we see, think and perform it here. Just the basic thoughts that initially come to the mind when thinking of stage hypnosis are extremely different. Here we think of an actual stage, in a theater, school auditorium, fair or festival or perhaps in a comedy club. Many times when it's discussed you think of smaller performances in pubs or bars. My show last night has 546 people in attendance, I kept 84 subjects on stage for the duration of the show after testing. From the descriptions we get from you guys the discussions are I had 8 people..., or you only need one or a few people for a good show. We look at this as a viable profession and business opportunity, many of you see it as an add on or upsell to some type of other performance. We believe in safety, training and continued education, some of you brag of having learned hypnosis from just reading a book. Many differences. These differences are what actually prevents good, serious and decent discussions from occurring. Instead it creates you defending your perspectives against the opposing. As I say, different perspectives, and we are coming from two different places.

I think this is one reason so many have chosen to leave here. People want to discuss and share with peers, not opponents.

Then I won't even get into those that also do magic. Most true stage hypnotists (here) would never consider this or feel it would cheapen their performance. "Why do magic when I can do the real thing" - hypnosis.

Audiences therefore are different too. Here they are blown away. They want to talk to you about it. The want to but a DVD of the show, a t-shirt or CD, and a picture and/or autograph. I stayed around about 75 minutes following the show just to accommodate the audience after last nights show. They want to come back again tomorrow night and bring family and friends. They are blown away, and most of the public still have not ever seen a live stage hypnosis show, and it rarely appears on t.v.

Again major differences. The results is little stage hypnosis is discussed here. Take away all the therapy and street topics and it becomes very slow here because nobody is actually discussing stage hypnosis.

So I guess what I'd like to see is things get back to the basics back to the topic at hand - the performance and business if stage hypnosis. Not sure it can ever happen.
mindpunisher
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The popularity of stage hypnosis in the UK has NOTHING to do with the laws. When it was huge we still had the same laws. What destroyed hypnosis over here was the huge number of operators in a relatively small country jumping on the bandwagon many of them really bad. It got to a pint that just about every pub had a hypnosis show. It was this huge number mostly of bad unskilled hypnotists that not only caused problems but also took away the "gloss" from hypnosis. It lost its mystery uniqueness and quickly became stale and then all the bad media attention.

Simply put the public got sick to the back teeth of seeing it. I never did pubs I always did universities clubs hotels and theatres. Most of the real hypnotists back then did these types of venues. Then came the bandwagon failed comedians and anyone seeing the opportunity to make easy money and flooded the market.

My first show in 10 years I did a major venue headlining edinburgh festival in 2010.

The problem we have now apart from the recession that there are even more operators or potential operators in the back ground even less skilled than the last ones that flooded the market. Should someone take a big risk and bring hypnosis back the market will be flooded and once again the public will be sick to the back teeth of it. There is a rend just now to sell stage hypnosis trainings and products. Dozens of people are being trained all the time over here ensuring that hypnosis will never recover. It need down time a few years to rest but a few hypnotsists decided to rape the market by selling trainings because they could no longer earn from doing shows.

UK is tiny compared to the US

As for a subject to talk about? Its all been said and done on here. The reason no one is talking about stage hypnosis is because there is nothing left to say. The reason some of the pros have left is because it is no longer a good place to sell their products.

Talking about stage hypno on here has become boring. Its the simple answer.

Why not start your own forum somewhere and screen who you let in. Make it a business orientated forum. Charge a small fee that way you will keep out the idiots.

And you will find out of there is a real desire for such a forum. Again talking about the inner workings of business on an open public forum is probably something most professionals wouldn't want to do and for good reason.
mindpunisher
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Plus the street hypno phenomena emerged but had nothing to do with the laws. It happened because of Derren Brown and in particular his promotion of the handshake induction. It created a desire for magicians to learn hypnosis and that desire was filled by a few operators creating products once again to SELL.

Most things are built and destroyed on mans need for recognition and greed.
Mindpro
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These are some very valid points. I remember when Paul McKenna made his way to America and was actually doing quite well in America coming from your neighborhood. Quite professional, polished and was making a splash here in the states. Then just as fast as he came (making major television appearances, selling books, etc.) he simply disappeared. I know he suffered problems in lawsuits and legalities back home. At the time he seemed to be leading the way for stage hypnosis over there long before Derren Brown came onto the scene. Ken Webster still seems to perform for decent audiences in good venues as well.

I guess I'm not sure if the laws really are the cause for the shift in popularity as so often stated by hypnotists there, or if that is simply an excuse as MP points out, and the bandwagon jumpers are the real cause for it's demise due to the bottom-feeder effect. In reality this seems more likely as the laws were in place when McKenna and others were still doing fine, correct?
TonyB2009
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I would love a forum where people discuss nothing but stage hypnosis, because that is what I am into. If someone asks for therapy, I tell them to check the yellow pages. I don't do therapy. Like Mindpro I would never dream of mixing magic with hypnosis - though I have no problem maintaining separate income streams as a magician and a hypnotist.

I like the idea of one-on-one hypnosis in an entertainment setting, or as part of a mentalism set. But I do not do street hypnosis, and never will. I am a stage hypnotist.

But the market here, like the UK, is different from the USA. Mindpro had over 500 for his show this weekend. I had less than 50 at my show on Friday in a small rural pub, and less than 120 the following night at a wedding. The reasons are different from the reasons in the UK. It is simply a matter of scale. We are a small country. If Mindpro had to confine himself year-round to the Seattle metropolitan area and could not range further, he would find that he was in a similar position. It might give him a different perspective.

But just because we entertain crowds of different sizes does not mean we cannot swap experiences and knowledge. The most responded-to thread here in months has been one on abreactions, which are not a feature of stage work. That is the problem with this forum. There are not enough stage hypnotists, and none of them are talking about stage hypnosis. It is not that there are too many UK people here. I have met many UK performers, and they are a nice bunch. There are some solid hypnotists among them, from whose experience we could benefit.
hypnospook
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The UK is suffering from a shortage of good venues, lots of places have gone out of business, that could have easily put a small to medium sized show on, and the economy is affecting every performer whether a comedian, magician or hypnotist.
yes there have been many people learning to become hypnotists, but how many of them will be around in 2 years time. its ok learning the skills, but then if you don't know the art of performing and the art of entertaining, then you wont get very far.
as for legislation is simple enough, apply to the council, produce your insurance, not rocket science though the 28 days thing is a pain, as you cant take a booking for a show in 5-10 days time, so you need to plan in advance, so maybe something needs to be addressed there and that's what I would like to see, a change in the way the licensing laws are worked, we should be able to take bookings like any other enterainer and performer, and we should not have to re apply for every show, so this process is speeded up.
Stage Hypnosis, is an art, and should not be allowed to die a slow death, its a specialist show and a unique performance and it should embraced as such, and the knowledge and experience of the stage hypnotist is valuable
mindpunisher
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Another thing in the early days of my career no one bothered applying for a license in the smaller venues such as hotels clubs or universities. I am pretty sure that still goes on to a degree. But insurance didn't require you to have a license to be valid. Local councils didn't really care apart from the big theatre type venues in the centre of town. It was when the bandwagon jumpers came along and it caused loads of problems did councils clamp down and insurance required a license.

Tony I don't think the size of Ireland is the problem its basically the current popularity of hypnosis along with conditions created by the recession. Keith Barry proved that when he sold out a major venue week after week. It can be done although he has a great advantage because of his media exposure.

I was offered a 6 week tour of Ireland in the 90s and were going to be doing shows most nights of the week around various social clubs. I didn't accept though because I didn't like the idea of being in a protestant are one night and a catholic the next. The agent assured me we would not only be safe but treated like kings. I couldn't convince my brother in law either who was my roadie at the time!

n another note seems someone is about to release a book "Mentalism for Dummies" and has plagiarized some of the main effects and principles. This will be in mainstream book stores. There will always be a few who ruin any market due to greed and lack of talent to make it in any other way.
Mindpro
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Yes this book is already out and already being discounted. Hopefully it will die a quick death before too much damage can be done. Again with the releasing of someone else's methods and secrets only to make a quick buck.
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