I just had a call from these people asking me to buy tickets for their show that they can then donate them to underprivileged children in my area.

http://www.circus-starr.co.uk/Donated-Ticket-Scheme.html

It's an interesting way to fund a show.
It seems they contact lots of local businesses and ask them for sponsorship..
Essentially they are asking businesses to pay for their show, so they can then give it away for free to local children.
I'm not sure about whether it seems very ethical to me.

I don't think I understand the problem. They ask you to sponsor the show so kids who might not be able to see it can.

If they do bring in the kids it seems pretty upfront to me.

These are sometimes called "boiler room" shows. They are extrememly common here in Canada. They can be legitimate fundraisers being done by honest companies or they can be crooked and overselling the venue and pocketing the profits. The problem is not knowing which you are dealing with.

Over the past decades, I have worked with both performing in and booking the talent for their variety shows.

In my early days as a performer, I was working for a crooked one. I had no idea what they were about, only that they paid very well, and in cash, at the end of every show. Now, I understand what they were up to. The clues, although not conclusive, were that they paid in cash on the spot and that there were shows with nobody or very few people in the audience. (Imagine performing to a mother and her two kids in a theatre that holds 600 people because they were the only 3 people in the seats.)

Later on, I worked with some honest companies. They would solicit local businesses for donations to give away tickets and they did just that. There would always be hundreds of people in the audience for every show. The donated tickets were donated and groups of people with various challenges, both physical and mental, would be there on the donated tickets, as well as others that received the donated tickets for various reasons.

The businesses that donated the money for the tickets would receive advertising space or at least sponsorship mention in the printed program that every one in the audience received. The program also included information about the charity the fundraiser was for as well as photos and bios of each of the acts in the show. There would often be letters in the program from politicians wishing the charity well and thanking those who donated or attended the show. (The crooked shows did not have programs.)

As a performer, I loved them. The venues were mostly actual theatres with professional sound and lights provided. They paid well. You were helping out charities. You are entertaining people who might normally not be able to see a live show because of circumstances in their life, as well as the general public. You get to do routines and illusions that you would not be able to perform in other types of venues. You often have very large crowds to perform to (it's an amazing feeling to have 700 or 800 people roar with laughter at your jokes or funny bits).

So, back to your dilemma, is circus-starr.co.uk a honest or crooked promoter? I would say, after a quick visit to their web site, that they are legitimate. I would also say it is very ethical when dealing with a honest promoter.

RJE2 said it well.

It's the same here in the states too. Only you don't see it as much now days.

Back a hundred years ago, when I did magic, that was the way I sold my show.

The business can pass out the tickets themselves or the promoters will have groups of kids to give them too.

And let's not forget, a part of the money goes to raise funds for yet another group.

Very hard work doing something like that, but as RJE2 said, it's often a good feeling on show day.

Tom

I have worked with a company who did this in our area. Most are honest and the tickets actually go to bringing in the children who might not get the chance to witness entertainment. I sponsor children for our Fraternal Order of Police Christmas shopping program, "COPS AND KIDS". We ask businesses and others to help sponsor them as well. These children get toys and clothes for Christmas they might not get if we did not help out.

As far as this company you show, I know nothing about them. I usually check the Better Business Bureau here in the states to get a heads up on any company I come in contact with. I also like to get the names of those in charge to check them out as well.

Glenn

Phil;

To answer your question, it’s ethical, beauty pageants are operated in a similar manner; additionally the next question I have is, why don’t you call them back and ask them how you can be added to the list of paid performers that will do a show for underprivileged children.

I received my first call many years ago from someone claiming to be with a county sheriff department. The claimed they would put my business as an ad in a program at a high school basketball game. One time I did make the offer. I received many more calls after that. But I never did it again. Each time for a while I told them I can donate only my time to be a fund raiser. They never accepted that. I still received more calls through the years. I also moved to a different city, and mentioned it to them. But they did not stop calling my business. One day I saw on the news media the deputy sheriff department does not ask for money, it was a scam. Whenever I received the calls I notice the number does not show up on my caller ID. They had no direct building mortar address I could send any money to. When they called me again I told them I will donate $500. I did not send anything to the P.O. box he gave me. It worked, they stopped calling me.

It is a scam, but a legal scam and nothing can be done to stop it; they claim to place your business card in a local magazine printed for an event and - or make a donation to a non-profit.

They print the book the cheapest possible way and deliver a minimum amount to the event and donate a small amount to the sheriff’s booster club, keeping the remaining largest portion of the money for themselves.

The company you are sending your payment to is not a non-profit company; nothing can be charged against the company since they did what they promised, a book has been printed and delivered and a donation has been made to the organization they are calling about.

The worst part about it, is that when they get your donation, they call you for every other book they print

Thanks for your replies.

I think it's a legitimate charity/company. I just have a slight uneasiness about claims that it's all done for charity and in a good cause. It you want to donate tickets to underprivileged children, do so, but I wouldn't ask other people to pay for the seats you give away.
It seems to be a good way to fill seats at their show though.


Phil

Phil,

The money does not ALL go to charity. Even the honest promoters will still take their cut, they have expenses and are not non-profit. And then there are the expenses. The theatre rental, the people manning the the phones who call you for donations or ticket sales, the talent etc.....

The honest companies I worked for typically worked this way. They would contact a charity and promise them a certain amount of money, typically thousands. In return, the charity allows the promoter to use their name in promoting the show. The promoter then assumes all the expenses and risk. The promoter sells the show, sells the tickets, books the talent, prints the programs, rents the theatre etc... The promoter then gives the charity the promised amount, pays their bills and keeps the rest. Sometimes they make a lot, sometimes they make a little and sometimes, they may even lose money, though losing money is rare.

People have to get paid for the work they do.

RJE2; What you describe is the honest and honorable way to promote the show, the alternative is to pick an existing event, like a school basketball game, go to the people heading the event and tell them they will print a “program and print and deliver it for free” all they need is the list of families and businesses of players plus whatever mailing list they have that support the team; they then get the Chamber of Commerce membership guide and spend a week calling.

If they can sell 20 pages of advertising for $50.00 per business card add. Times 10 spaces per page, that would be $10,000 total, they can add some pages for copy and articles of interest, print 1000 books for under $1000.00 and donate $1000.00 to the basketball team, leaving them $8000.000 or more profit; if they can sell you a full color half. or full page of advertising the profits soar

Yes Danny they have to get paid for what they do, but the team gets less than anyone and the company reaps all the large profit; while making it sound like your supporting the team, when actually you are supporting the printing company

Hey Howie,

Although I have never been involved in a situation as you described, I still don't see a problem with it. I'm not trying to start a row with you here, but I am missing something.

The event did not have a professional program prior to this, but does now, and the team also has $1000 more than it had before. The printer, prints the program and sells advertising, both of which printers do. The companies who sponsor by buying advertising space, get the advertising they paid for.

As it turns out, the participant in this business dealing that did the most work (the printer) made the most money but everyone got what they were promised or paid for. If I was planning a school event, I would be pleased to have a printer do all this for me.

But this is exactly what happens with all the school fundraisers that sell cookie dough and all that crap. The companies that supply the crap make a lot more thatn the schooIs.It may seem shady but it's perfectly acceptable to the masses and legal.

Way back when I did the fundraising thing,(70's) I split the 'profits' 50/50 with the sponsor.

Of course there really were a lot of expenses. Paying a phone crew, delivery/collecting people, motel rooms, phone bills, etc, can add up in a hurry. Plus the cost of the show.

If I remember correctly, the sponsor usually ended up with about twenty-five percent of the total take in. Which means I got the same and the other fifty percent was used up. Compared to other paid shows I made a lot of money doing it that way.

Not all magicians do the promoting themselves. (I was greedy and wanted it all. lol) Many of the shows are booked by the promoters and have no idea how much money was taken in. The show is working for a flat fee and has nothing to do with the charity.

Very hard for me to trust phone people today, and not because it is so easy for them to steal, but even with the honest ones, the money is spread out so much that it never gets to the charity.

A very old but still a good book that talks about the touring illusion show and selling the show with a boiler room is, "Illusion Show Know How" by Ken and Roberta Griffin.

Tom

Tom is correct, in the 70’s most companies offering the service were honest and forthright,
RJE2;

You are correct everyone got something and no laws were broken; it is unfortunate that the team parents are not more imitative.
When contracted with a boiler room vendor, the caller to the business makes it sound like the entire $50.00 is forwarded to the team; very few business owners will ask questions, they want to support the team and show it in an advertisement.

Had the parents been more creative they could have appointed someone to spearhead the project, and called the business themselves received the donations, printed a book announcing the donors, and paid the person spearheading the project $1000.00 for phone calls and time; this would have resulted in the team receiving $8000.00 instead of $1000.00

When you hire these professional callers, who are not members of the organization they are calling on their behalf, some problems arose. Many represented themselves as police officers or members of the organization they were calling about. We had this problem once which almost ruined us.

Another problem is that the calling company gets almost 70% of the proceeds they bring in. We decided on not using any of these anymore for our FOP fund raisers. Instead, we go to the people and businesses, in our FOP attire to inquire if they want to sponsor a child or children for our Cops and Kids Christmas program.

I get calls from people representing themselves as members of the FOP around the state or the PBA who want a donation for bullet proof vests for officers whose agencies cannot afford them. When I question them, I find they are not members of either organization, although they represented themselves as such. I contacted the state lodges and chapters to let them know this.

Glenn

Check out this scam guy in Detroit: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/hal......20404-ms

To add to what Glenn said about hiring professional callers. Even with an honest promoting company, it's sometimes easy for a caller to do his own collecting of the money and then it never get reported. They stealing from the promoter, the business, and the charity.

There needs to be check points set up for all involved. Like they say, "trust but always verify."

Tom

The site looks like a scam and it even uses the word SCHEME as a header, yes there are legitimate businesses that do this but I will bet this is not one of them.