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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » From Soup to Nuts » » Progress Updates for a New order at the New Hank Lee (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Illuminate . White Label
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It is about a week since I expressed great dissatisfaction concenring the "pre-charge" that Hank Lee made to my credit card.

I have provided Aron my above DETAILED breakdown of communications over 3-4 times given his reply for which I below provide.

Essentially, the reasons-justifications-excuses provided by Aron can be classified into:

1) We only charged what was approved. [Notwithstanding approval given 15 May, Charges for a higher amount that what was approved occured 3rd May when initial inquiry came in]

2) Your overcharged items [items which I agreed to] was because of a computer error. *Error occured twice even though such had been highlighted*

3) I [Hank Lee] do not see how we have wronged you. [Even after my VERY long and many queries-communications listing down events and breaches] Please do get back. "I am not sure what you think has happened that would cause your dismay. Please let me know"

4) We did not put any charge through until we knew what items you were ordering, that is for sure [ Notwithstanding charges above detailed]

ESSENTIALLY, NO TAKING OF RESPONSIBILITY ... ITS ALL "TECHNOLOGY", "SOME OTHER ISSUE" OR, even better... "I don't KNOW HOW WE DID WRONG, EVER"

I would allow space for human error, but after a while, the "my dog ate my homework; sheepboy cries wolf" thing takes away ANY shrwed of credibility from offending party.

_________________________________________________________________________________


Replies from Aron, Hank Lee:

26 May 2012--> I believe we charged you for the items that you approved.

26 May --> [After reading my Detailed listing of communications with dates and "who said what"] I don't think we did anything wrong. We do owe you some items and we will deliver as quickly as possible.
So I really think it's all OK

29 May 2012 --> I will review everything when I return to the office and will get back to you.

30 May 2012 --> Alvin, Thank you for your patience. We got back in town late yesterday and [something personal on Aron's side], so thing have been a little crazy here.
However, I do want to make sure everything is correct. I am attaching your three invoices. I would ask that you go over them and see what charges were made.
We show that there are two items due you, the [Item 1 & 2]. Both items are on order from their respective distributors and should be here early next week, They will be shipped to you together.In any case, please look over the invoices and let me know if we are "on the same page."
** Notwithstanding the new invoice, Hank Lee had STILL Double Charged US$99.50 me for one item and had an extra charge of $0.05 on another ... this inspite of my earlier notice to him**

30 May 2012 ALVIN to Aron --> While I do not agree with much, I certainly pray that [Your personal matter resolves] I will go through the invoices and get back to you. ARE YOU GOING TO CANCLE THE CHARGES IMPOSED 4TH MAY NOW? [emphasis- caps mine for this forum only]

30 May 2012 ALVIN to Aron --> Hi Aron. I have reviewed the invoice. Please note that your system has again significantly overcharged for [Item 1 & 2] for a total of USD$99.55
I am dismayed at much of what has transpired and cannot say that this transaction has given me much confidence in or goodwill for Hank Lee.

30 May 2012 ARON to Alvin --> I can see where the system charged you the wrong (old) price for [Item 1]. That is easily rectified. Please let me know if there is anything else so that we can fix everything at once. We really do want you to be happy. ... ... Just one more thing. I am not sure what you think has happened that would cause your dismay. Please let me know

30 May 2012 ALVIN to Aron --> For starters, and If you would like, you might wish to address the issue of the charge on my credit card on 3rd May 2012 contrary to all that had been conveyed. [Entire Detailed correspondance + MORE COMMUNICATIONS which I missed out initially copied again]

30 May 2012 ARON to Alvin --> We did not put any charge through until we knew what items you were ordering, that is for sure. I will be back with you very soon

30 May 2012 ALVIN to Aron --> Please do get back. What occurred certainly doesn't give credence to whats mentioned. And it does not reflect well on the systems and personal realibility at the revamped Hank Lee.

(Timelines might reflect either US or Asia's date-zone. For guidance, its 1st June at time of writing and last communications from Aron was 36-48hrs ago]
Illuminate . White Label
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Oh yes...

Without going into detailed figuers, I will state for the record that Hank Lee had OVERCHARGED my account by over 27% than what was agreed.

Yups. 27% ... that fully went to the credit card already.
Dougini
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"The New Hank Lee's"? Ya know, I really had hope. I guess things will never change. It's Penguin and Ellusionist for me...

Doug
King14
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Placed a order with hank lee 4 month ago.Never received anything.They told me they had posted it and it has got lost in post.If it comes back to them they will resend it.Now they don't answer my E-mails.Great company to deal with.????????????????????????????????????
Paul Budd
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Alvin,

You need to switch to decaf. I can understand anyone concerned about anything relating to $$, but jeez dude.........are you a para-legal?

....and guess what: "contrary to all your representations".......your stuff makes me dizzy.
Now, I'm not defending Hank, but man.......you've got time to type, cut and paste, elaborate, expunge, expound upon, obfuscate and conflagrate, agitate and masticate....?!?!?!?!!!!

Dude: go practice your second deal or something.
His face isn't really this long in-person!
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rklew64
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Alvin, move on - sorry that happened but venting here is pointless. At some point it is unproductive, obsessive and just annoying - I think.
Paul Budd
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I certainly second the "annoying" part.
His face isn't really this long in-person!
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Jim Sparx
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As previously posted in this thread, I ordered recently from HL and got my stuff. Your mileage may vary...
Illuminate . White Label
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Greetings, Paul and Rklew

Thank you for your views and as you will note, I had not posted any further updates since 31st May 2012. Your comments appear to ignore the silence that has occured over the last 15 days.

I certainly had not started this thread seeking to bash anyone and had entered the deal in good faith. As the thread title will indicate, this thread merely seeks to reflect transactions with the New Hank Lee as it progressed... had the transation been smooth and wonderful I would have sung their praises. Its just sad that this has gone bumpy.

Since I don't do close ups, shall skip the advice on practicing Second Deals... I might just well focus on finding a second dealer. Smile
Mikael
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Alvin, I'm sorry to read your posts and also have to admit I found them some time earlier. I placed an order with Hank Lee several weeks back, still haven't received anything, and when I sent them an e-mail questioning the status of my order they told me they were out of stock and would get back to me. Several weeks later and a couple of sent e-mails from me (without getting any reply from them obviously), I'm still here - some hundred dollars short...
Dougini
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Sheesh! Any chance at redemption for them is fading fast... Smile
Illuminate . White Label
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THIS IS MY FINAL UPDATE to the ongoing saga.


I HAVE RECEIVED CHARGEBACK REFUND FOR the transaction and Hank Lee (the Father) is has now THREATENED TO HAND THE MATTER OVER TO HIS ATTORNEY AND THE AUTHORITIES. Because of the potential that this may result in Judicial process, I will not go back and re-cover "he says, she says" beyond stating that [to the best of my understanding] 3 separate and distinct financial institutions appear to conclude that the monies have to be refunded.

I had in late May / June sought the assistance of my local financial institution (Citibank) and MasterCard and per the standard chargeback procedure, produced my complaint and supported the claim with the necessary documents-email. Through this, I received a temporary refund of money by June with the caveat that this refund is not totally confirmed until investigations were truly completed and such could take anywhere from 3-6 months.

Today, 10 July 2012, Hank Lee (yes, the Father) wrote me for which we had a series of correspondances. Essentially, Hank Lee demands:

1) Immediate Payment for items received
2) Accuess me of Baloney
3) Alleges that fraud had occured on my end because, inter alia, the "credit card was not in my name"
4) Hank Lee has (in later emails) informed me that his own bank refuses to reverse the chargeback. I will leave it to Hank Lee Magic to eleborate on this since I am not a party to interactions between Hank Lee and his local financial institution.

When Hank Lee made the demand for me to pay for the items, I informed him that

a) Until and Unless my financial institution informs me that investigations have completed and that the chargeback is conffirmed / fully refunded, " I am unwilling to consider providing Aron or Hank Lee magic further access to my funds until this clears"
b) Apparently, 3 financial institutions, his included, support my Baloney. Even after Hank Lee had attempted to get his bank to reverse the chargeback by providing his side of the story, [I learn that] his own bank is refusing to reverse the charge back.

Because he involked Judicial Process, this will be my LAST UPDATE. I am pleased to fall back on my 8 years of college education in America, with the final 3 years in one of the top institutions in Cambridge, MA. Yea... as one reader points out, ... all the legal language makes him dizzy.

This was my last communications to Hank Lee:

_______________________________________________________________________

Hank Lee

Please fwd this to your attorney - actually, let me help you. Give me 24hrs and I will write the District Attorney. It shouldnt be too difficult since I have compiled a thorough claim for the financial institutions.

It is interesting how your attorney is advising you "on this side" now if indeed they are the same ones advising you on the proven allegations of fraud that were laid against you. Certainly, the experience is beneficial...

Because we seek to bring this to the attention of law enforcement, I will hold on explaining further.

For the avoidance of doubt, it is your end that is putting an end to conversations as I had informed you " I am unwilling to consider providing Aron or Hank Lee magic further access to my funds until this clears... nor am I able to provide you further access to funds while this matter remains handled by third party entities."

Best.
__________________________________________________________________
Dougini
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Smile I don't know what to say. You order something, he doesn't have it, so you ask for a refund! Simple? Not any more. Pure arrogance on Hank's part! I'm not even sure he's the same Hank I knew back in the 70's...back then, that would have NEVER happened. He went out of his way to fix problems, and I was always happy!

It's a different world today. Maybe we've slipped into some kind of alternate universe, like they did in Star Trek, where the good guys were evil, I don't know...

If this is the "New Hank Lee's Magic Factory", word needs to get out about THIS! I still can't believe this is the same place I used to shop... Smile

Doug
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The same thing happened to me recently.

I've never heard bad stuff about Hank Lee untill I made an order recently.

It has been a month by now, and the items has yet to arrive.

In addition to that, they stop replying my email once payment has been made.

These are the issues

1) The bill came and there were foregin charges that ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THE INVOICE.
2) Items have still not arrived after A MONTH
3) They CLAIM that they would do a refund because the father's day discount option wasn't working.
4) ZERO replies since payment has been made.
Munseys_Magic
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Alvin,

Thank you VERY MUCH for sharing your experiences with us. I hope all ends well for you.
Jim Munsey
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http://www.MunseysMagic.com
Lundonia
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I placed an order in March and haven't received anything yet.

When I first contacted Hank Lee's after about a month, Aron replied that they were still waiting for the product from their supplier. I wait another month and send them another email with anything they might need to track my order. At that point I just wanted a refund, couldn't care less about the product. No reply.

Sent them another email the other day. No reply.

Called them today. No reply.

I really love the world of magic since it's a productive and creative hobby filled with interesting people. I guess there are thieves and bad seeds everywhere...
"Only two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity - and i'm not sure about the former" - Albert Einstein
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Lundonia
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And today I received my refund Smile

I really hope they are getting everything together.
"Only two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity - and i'm not sure about the former" - Albert Einstein
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kennewhitson
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I am currently going through the exact issue. I ordered several hundred dollars worht of merchandise and recieved all but 2 items, which made up a third of the cost. My invoice, which was charged fully, stated items would be shipped in 7 -10 days. I have called twice and been told they woudl "ship out tomorrow'. I know this is in fact a lie because I have been in contact with the magician who manufactures the items and HL hasn't ordered them. The manufacturor has spoken directly to HL and told him that he would drop ship it directly to me once hank pays for the item, he was asked for an invoice and still no payment. It appears that the entire operation is running their business 'As usual". My intent was to help out the "victims" of this situation, the employees at HL. Now I realize that we magic consumers are the victims and they continue to take us. Shame on me!
tnmagicgator
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I had two bad experiences with Hank Lee's in 2007 and in took an incredible amount of calls and correspondence for me to receive satisfaction. At that point, I vowed to never do business with them again. As things have turned out, it looks like I made a wise decision.

Ther are too many good vendors and retailers of magic to put up with the kind of crap Hank Lee's has pulled, appearantly for many years. I have a Google notification link for Hanks sentencing on Sept. 6th......he'll deserve every day the judge gives him. Greed and dishonestly are no way to run ANY business.

I'll be surprised if Hank Lee's manages to survive this......the court has a motion under consideration to attach all of the company's assets in order to pay back the customer that was ripped off of over $500,000.
Illuminate . White Label
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So, the news is out ... Hank Lee will be going away for a while.

Heres their blog post posted just 7hrs back:


Greetings from all of us at Hank Lee’s Magic Factory.
For me, the 6th of September will be etched into my memory for the rest of my life. It marked the end of a long and terrible road for me personally, for my family and for the company.
I want to thank all of you who have stuck by us through this horrible period. You are true friends. And, we all care deeply for you.
The judge says I should go away for a while. To think about what I did. As hard as this will be, I cannot disagree with her. But, nothing happens now until the 29th of October. It is important to let you know that Hank Lee’s Magic Factory will continue to operate, with or without me, Hank Lee. The truth is, it will probably run better. Aron has been learning the ropes. And, with help from Steven and Don, he is doing a really good job. There have been some bumps in the road, of course. But, the learning curve is steep.
The good news for me is that the waiting is over. I have spent the past months with the Sword of Damocles hanging over my head. It has been a debilitating time. Now, I will face the punishment for my deeds, knowing that the punishment has both a beginning and an end.
Your job, should you accept it, is to help Aron and The Elves while they learn to fly on their own. I hope you will take the job seriously!
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