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Sparrowhwk Regular user 177 Posts |
This may well seem like a strange question, but I'm curious.
When considering the certain something that makes a chop cup routine .... well... a chop cup - I was wondering: Does it make a difference where that something special is? ie. whether it is in the cup or the ball? Obviously there are 2 parts to this effect, I'm specifically asking about the "active" part, not the passive material that works with it. Perhaps it's easier to think about it this way, if you were making a chop cup out of a Starbucks cup, would it be best to have the "******" piece in the cup or the ball? Why? I realize that in this particular example, the "passive object" would also need something to complete the picture. It is for this reason that I can't see any particular reason why it might be better to have the power in one part vs the other - and hence my question. I apologize for the clumsy wording here, I'm just trying to stay within the boundaries of the forum, and I hope my question makes sense. Thank you. |
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shellgame-al Veteran user Arizona, USA 352 Posts |
To make any connection it takes two items. But the cup has to only have a connection in one area of the cup. Now the ball can have a connection on any area of it if using a different something. If you are working with a special something only the same two points will make a connection. I don't know if this answers your question, first you need to know all the ways to make a connection and yes it does matter where that special something is or placed.
Manufacture of 3 Shell Game Sets & 3 Disk Monte Sets
3shells.com and magicswindles.com |
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Sparrowhwk Regular user 177 Posts |
Shellgame-al
I think I might get your point. If the "active" part of the 2 items is in the ball, and the cup is all "passive" material (not Starbucks paper cup), then you have a more generalized "chop" effect, whereas if the cup has an "active" item incorporated(this would likely result in a localized effect), and the ball is the passive material, then you have a more specific area of operation which can give some flexibility by means of controlling the location of the ball. Is this why you feel that it matter which object (cup or ball) has the active part. I am hoping that my use of "active" and "passive" makes sense in these posts. Thanks for the feedback. |
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Tim Dowd Special user ...Making the Magic Happen! 942 Posts |
Cup and ball are both active... Unless our opinions are poles apart...
Timothy Dowd
...Making the Magic Happen! http://www.timothydowd.com These are my points of view; I accept no responsibility for your interpretation of what I just said... |
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Octopus Sun Special user Wiggle Wiggle 586 Posts |
Craig petty's "chop" dvd explains what you want to know.
Once you get 50posts you can get into secret sessions. maybe find a better answer. |
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shellgame-al Veteran user Arizona, USA 352 Posts |
Octopus sun is right, you are not far from 50 to get all the right answers. As it is hard to give a answer to some questions when it is limited to what can be said, that can make senses and it can be taken wrong. I would take the suggestion of getting a good suggested dvd on the chop cup. It will give you all you need and give you the basics to build your own routine. Getting answers to a suggested dvd on what one to buy, is where you can get a lot of good answers on what you want to get from it.
Manufacture of 3 Shell Game Sets & 3 Disk Monte Sets
3shells.com and magicswindles.com |
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Richard Doyle Regular user Maryland 125 Posts |
It makes much more since to leave things the way it was designed.
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shellgame-al Veteran user Arizona, USA 352 Posts |
Tim is right, both cup & ball are active. But one can be active in a a different way.
Manufacture of 3 Shell Game Sets & 3 Disk Monte Sets
3shells.com and magicswindles.com |
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Sparrowhwk Regular user 177 Posts |
Thank you all for the responses.
When I signed up at the Café last year, I was aware of the benefit of the 50 posts. At that time I promised myself that I would not try to "work the system" by posting anything just to get to the 50. I prefer to listen rather than blab away in conversations, and I feel the same here. I decided I would only post when necessary, and have patience. I am looking forward to the opening of the doors to the SS portion of the Café, as I am sure there is a ton of stuff to be learned there. For now I will continue to work on my ideas for the chop cup I have in mind, and perhaps do some trial and error. I am open to suggestions for a good all-round DVD - something that is thorough and will give me a good foundation to try to take the chop cup idea further. Thank you again to all who generously share their hard won knowledge and experience. |
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shellgame-al Veteran user Arizona, USA 352 Posts |
I don't agreed with leaving anything the same way it was originally designed, if you can find a better way for something to work. That is why there are new tricks coming out everyday.
Manufacture of 3 Shell Game Sets & 3 Disk Monte Sets
3shells.com and magicswindles.com |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
There are many ways of acomplishing the Chop results with gimmicks other than the ones discussed here. Some were used before Wheatley started the modern frenzy with his use of that device. Many do not require a special ball or object. For example, the Fold Cup has a gimmick designed into the cup itself that can "chop" any small object.
So, in "trying to take the chop cup idea further" do not limit your thinking to any specific gaff, gimmick or set of moves. Often you can achieve the same results with Sleights alone. PM me if you get stalled, or get a copy of "Chop Sign" to quicken your search.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Once you have 50 posts, you can find a no-holds-barred discussion of how this is done in the Secret Sessions.
One reason that chop cups were made the way that is most familiar to us was that when the chop cups first came out, the technology of the day required it. Now things are different.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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VE Day New user LONDON, England, UK 94 Posts |
I wouldn't suggest doing what you appear to be suggesting with the ball as it would roll around in a strange way on the table if the table you are performing on has the required material imbeded in the wood or if it has sections made from that required material, if you catch my drift.
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Sparrowhwk Regular user 177 Posts |
VE - thank you!
Good point, that's exactly the type of thing I was hoping to learn about - I hadn't thought of that yet, and of course it now makes perfect sense. |
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hestonsmagic New user McMinnville, OR 92 Posts |
So I am short of the secret sessions as well.. but recently somewhere else here in the Café I thought I had seen a post about a PK and a paper cup for an impromptu routine.
So would this not change the "active" option that is being spoken of here? Or am I totally lost? |
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Sparrowhwk Regular user 177 Posts |
Hestonsmagic
This is one of the avenues I am exploring, but not with a true PK ring. There is a way to have a similar gimmick with any ring, which is available as a download from Morfin Magic. I think you're understanding things correctly - just 10 more posts and we can explore the world behind those SS doors . |
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shellgame-al Veteran user Arizona, USA 352 Posts |
The snatcher is not a PK ring.
Manufacture of 3 Shell Game Sets & 3 Disk Monte Sets
3shells.com and magicswindles.com |
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hestonsmagic New user McMinnville, OR 92 Posts |
So I actually developed my own device long ago that allowed ne the "chop" function or PK with any ring, or even my own fingernail could be "active" ...
Shellgame al... I was just. Looking at that site earlier today... Funny you linked me there... |
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
Hestonsmagic,
That is my preferred method. Both parts are active and the cup isn't one of them. It's just the container and is totally ungaffed. Doing it this way limits my range of motion a bit and I can only use one hand, but that's easily solved in choreography. Plus, with both parts active there is no error. I can "feel" the ball and control it much better without worrying about it dropping too soon.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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shellgame-al Veteran user Arizona, USA 352 Posts |
I also like one cup active and another cup that is not.
Manufacture of 3 Shell Game Sets & 3 Disk Monte Sets
3shells.com and magicswindles.com |
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