Yesterday, I started viewing the first few tricks on Bro. Hamman's Lost, etc...

I was distracted from the tricks by comments he made, seemingly in passing. I have been wondering about them all day.

He repeatedly miscalled the names of sleights. Even the Gemini count he called the "Gemini thing". When a remark was made from off-camera that referenced a sleight by (presumably) another, Bro. John pushed it off by saying essentially, he doesn't care about sleights...they are just the method to the means.

My impression is that he looked upon sleights as simple tools, not really caring about who developed them. He left me the impression that sleights were 'public domain' in his mind, so to speak.

I'm hoping that others here who know more, will share their opinions, not only in reference to Bro. Hamman, but in the concept addressed. Is it a popular opinion in the community? Is it an underground opinion? Is it held in disdain?

IMHO, it is more important to credit an effect or routine, rather than all the slieghts used to accomplish it. I too view the sleights as tools. Most of the reading I've done overwhelmingly says that sleights should not be done as tricks, but to achieve an overall effect.

Blindbo -- Is you're avatar based on the Paul Harris trick?

The video you're watching was a tool itself for Richard Kaufman Br. John wasn't really performing or teaching in the strictest sense - He was just showing Mr. Kaufman the bare bones of these effects - If you look and listen carefully - You see R.K. also making notes

Dave

I think we should credit the creators of the sleights too. How would we make the tricks without the sleights? The sleights are the backbone.

I don't believe it is inference on my part that brings me to think Bro. John feels sleights to be in "public domain'. Yes, those are my words, but Hamman clearly conveys his thoughts in such a way as to lead a listener to understand as much.

I find it an interesting point of discusion and debate in that view of sleights. I am becoming more comfortable in its basis, as I think more upon magic as effects, routines, performance, rather than sleights that are quite often promoted as tricks.

I appreciate the posts added thus far and am hoping for some of our most learned members to comment.

However, if you see his work that he puts out, things ARE properly credited.

If B.J.H. knew those videos would be out for the public at some point he might have treated all those things a little differently. (Those videos were meant only as a tool for RK, as stated earlier.)

It is really hard to say what he thought about crediting based on something intended for private viewing only by those who he knew would later add the correct credits.

I will try to remember to ask my friend about it, though, as he was a friend of B.J.H.

Well, how about a comment from a severely UN-learned member? Let's take this from a newbie point of view.

When I first started out with the usual trick books, and I'm talking beginner Bob Longe type stuff, the slights were usually shown often without a name and from what I remember never with a credit to who originally came up with it.

And as a beginner, you're merely concerned with learning and remembering and then executing a sleight. At the time you could care less who invented it. It isn't until one becomes more knowledgable in the craft that one finds themselves interested in the origins of sleights.

Giving credit to something can also be a tricky thing. How many times have you heard a couple of Joes arguing about who really came up with this-or-that effect that now is being marketed with a big-namer's name on it? Pinning down the origins of effect is hard enough, much less a method and even much much more less a sleight within a method, within an effect.

A part of me feels like it's along the lines of asking an artist who invented the red colored pencil. Not the blue one, that was so-and-so. But another part of me (probably the part of me that is growing as a magician) does in fact feel it's important to remember where things come from, in order to better understand and respect what we do.

I can't speak for the good Bro., but I guess it all boils down to what's important for you. Sure, we all arrive at the same ends (hopefully), meaning that we execute our effects successfully, but it comes down to only ourselves as individuals to choose the means.

Hope this point of view makes sense.