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Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts 
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I've noticed lately that many Sellers on the Let's Make A Magic Deal forum want the Buyer to use PayPal to GIFT the money to them. The reason given is to save the Seller PayPal fees. One Seller even got mad after the fact that I DIDN'T gift him the money---I just paid the invoice (which included a PayPal fee). This particular individual was / is also a member here who has bragged about how much more money he makes than others.
My take on this is, WHY is a Seller trying to rip off PayPal anyway? The Seller gets the money immediately instead of waiting, as in the case of a sent check. Should immediate money be a free service? Never has been with Western Union or a Cash Advance store. So I see some Sellers trying to take advantage of PayPal by using the gifting method. My next concern is, if I gift a Seller money, is there any recourse if the deal goes bad? Can I get my money back if I don't receive the merchandise? I don't know for sure since I haven't read PayPal's specfics or guidelines on this. But I suspect I would NOT be able to get a refund, and I am very uncomfortable with that. Lastly, I "gift" money and other things to those I know. That's my personal viewpoint. Why would I gift money to a complete stranger? Just to save him a few bucks? And believe me, most of the time we are only talking a few bucks. I really have no idea where that gift goes or how it will be used. I have negotiated with a few Sellers concerned about PayPal fees and have just paid addition for the fees in some cases. I also had one experience where a package deal was made for $50 and the Seller invoiced me for $51.50 to "help pay the PayPal fees." Really? Quibbling about $1.50? Well, I wanted the deal so I paid it anyway. But, really? Being so petty about PayPal fees? Then maybe these Sellers shouldn't be doing ANY business. To say the least, I will NOT be doing any more deals with this individual. I don't like being "side-swiped" at the last minute. I have a good friend in real estate that once told me, "A BAD deal is NO deal." I think this whole idea of a Seller asking for a PayPal "gift" upfront smells like a bad deal. I've offered to send a check to some so they wouldn't have to pay fees. Yes, they'd have to wait a few days, but they'd save a few bucks. Most do not take that option. And most of the time I make clean transactions here with PayPal by simply having the Sellers use a PayPal invoice form.
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
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the Sponge Inner circle Atlanta 2875 Posts
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The last time I "gifted" something, I had to pay the pay pal fees.
S |
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mumford Special user 652 Posts
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Paypal started this year issuing tax forms to sellers, in addition to the other seller beenfits, is it possible a "gift" doesn't generate the same tax liability as a "sale"? If one does a lot of biz annually, this could add up.
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pennjarr Regular user 110 Posts
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I use paypal, one of the advantages is that if I send money and the item doesn't arrive I can raise a dispute. I have only had to do this this a couple of times, but I was really glad to have the ability to do this. Paypal is convenient for the seller and buyer, money can be shifted around the world very quickly. If someone wants me to gift them the money to avoid fees that's not a problem for me, all I ask is they send me the item first, once it is received I will gift them the money.
As for adding fees onto the price, well that is just a poor effort, as for tax affairs that is the sellers problem to address, just factor it into price |
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gdw Inner circle 4892 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-05-31 17:48, pennjarr wrote: And that's how taxes continue to bugger the end user and little guy.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Jim Sparx Inner circle Far Out, Texas 1144 Posts
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Pay Pal fees are tax deductible for me because I itemize everything and I always get money back. I'm not willing to pay your taxes or fees.
Et tu, Spartacus?
https://fineartamerica.com/profiles/chispadeelpaso.html |
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pennjarr Regular user 110 Posts
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That’s right GDW I’m really kicking the little man with this, Those evil purchasers of magic with their zero tax and big cigars
If I advertise as selling an item for X, then X is what you expect to pay. Not X plus taxes, accountants fees, the price of the coffee you had whilst posting on the internet. If you do not wish to pay taxes then that is your choice, but please don’t ask me to carry the risk of you receiving my money and then not posting the item. If I gift it to you what come back do I have when you decide to not post it to me If you wish to advertise a product please state what you expect the buyer to pay, and I as a purchaser I can make up my mind. If I purchased an item from you in the States and you sent it to me in the UK, and when it arrived it was held by Customs (as they sometimes do) and I was asked to pay a customs fee, would it be okay if I emailed you and asked you to pay this as the seller. In the UK VAT may be added, and Royal Mail charges an £8 handling fee for any items stopped by customs, so a $50 item could have $10 added straight away and approx $12 added on top of that by Royal Mail. As the seller you would now owe me $22, afterall apparently we are going to share that tax burden |
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gdw Inner circle 4892 Posts
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I was pointing out how those types of fees are just passed on to the end buyer. The idea of charging, taxing, throwing fees at sellers affects you in the end.
I'm not saying that the gifting is a good idea, but that, if they weren't doing that, then you, the buyer, would end up paying more to make up for it. It just trickles down.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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pennjarr Regular user 110 Posts
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Okay gdw maybe we are not so far away, If the price is transparent e.g. it costs X plus P&P as a purchaser I can either accept or move onto another purchaser. the OP was talking about two specific difficulties the first was requests for more money (to cover fees) above the original stated price. Well if you say its X plus fees, again I can either say fine or move on. But the key is to be clear about your pricing, so the seller is not being misled.
the second issue is around gifting money, Paypal provides a service for electronically transferring money around the world, for which it charges a fee. If I send you some money and never receive the item I can raise a dispute with paypal, and hopefully get my money back. As I understand if I gift you the money I cannot raise a dispute, the money has gone (additionnally the sponge pointed out I would pay the fee). A very simple solution to this, if someone wishes to be paid as a gift, they simply send me the item and once I receive it I will gift them the money when it arrives (simply put Cash on delivery) |
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Bardo New user England 45 Posts
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Paypal is terrific! On the click of a mouse the money arrives in your account instantly! For this level of convenience a price has to be paid. It's called 'the fees'. If people don't want to pay the fees then don't use Paypal.
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pennjarr Regular user 110 Posts
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Bardo I completly agree, it appears some sellers would like things both ways. They want the cash instantly but arent prepared to pay for it.
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gdw Inner circle 4892 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-06-04 06:55, Bardo wrote: :thumbsup: But it was much better before its creator sold it.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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J-Mac Inner circle Ridley Park, PA 5338 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-05-31 10:56, Atom3339 wrote: That is amazingly sleazy IMO, and I refuse to do business with sellers who ask that. If the PayPal fee is that onerous to a seller then just advertise the deal as PayPal plus fee. I wouldn’t bother buying but some might. But to ask after the deal is set - that's just ignorant. I'd tell 'em where to go and look elsewhere. Jim |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts
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I completely agree with Jim. I use Paypal often to send money to my kids. I really appreciate that Paypal recognizes this and has a procedure for it that ensures they get what I sent. Thank you Paypal! If we try to scam PP they will eliminate this wonderful service. Play it straight!
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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DougTait Elite user Sebring, FL 493 Posts
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If you are willing to do business with someone who is cheating Paypal, what does that say about their integrity and honesty - or yours for that matter?
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men [and women] to do nothing."
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J-Mac Inner circle Ridley Park, PA 5338 Posts
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Just saw a post in the "Tricks For Sale" forum where the seller doesn’t accept PayPal "because the fees are too high", and one of our members posted to tell him that you don’t have to pay any PayPal fees; just ask the buyer to send the money as a gift!
Gives a whole new meaning to "Magicians Helping Magicians"... Jim |
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Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts
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^ It's despicable.
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 3003 Posts
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Paypal provides great opportunity. I appreciate it. The fees are miniscule in comparison, far as I can see.
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Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts
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Another seller just lost a quick sale. I was all ready to give him his asking price. But he wanted me to pay additional PayPal fees AND "gift" it to him.
Frustrating when I have the money NOW, will pay his asking price (!) and he'd have the money in five minutes.
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
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cablerock Veteran user 362 Posts
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Aside from the ethics of this, let me CONFIRM that gifting money to somebody else ensures that if the seller does not come through with the item, you are out of your money. There is no way you can open a dispute considering you gifted the money. I have been keeping up on this happening to a member of a guitar forum which I frequent. He gifted the money and now he can't do anything about it.
So keep that in mind, protect yourself as a buyer. |
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Posted: May 31, 2012 02:56 pm 
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