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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » Roy Benson billiards (7 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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leomagnus
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Anyone have or know how I might get access to a video of Roy Benson doing the billiard balls? I know through reading Levent's Roy Benson by Starlight that several videos exist, but so far I haven't found them anywhere.

Thanks.

-Leo
hugmagic
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Levent recreates it on his DVD set on the Billard Balls. The set is well worth the money.

I do not think the Benson video has been released. It might have been sold with the Deluxe Benson by Starlight but I am not sure.

Go for the Levent video set. You will not regret it. Also has Cardini's routine on it.

Richard
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Bill Hegbli
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Many of these films that have been converted (and some have not been converted) are in "Private" collections and only do to their generosity, has some magicians been able to see them.

How can you get them? Find the collector and make him an offer he cannot refuse.
leomagnus
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Quote:
On 2012-06-05 20:58, hugmagic wrote:
Levent recreates it on his DVD set on the Billard Balls. The set is well worth the money.

I do not think the Benson video has been released. It might have been sold with the Deluxe Benson by Starlight but I am not sure.

Go for the Levent video set. You will not regret it. Also has Cardini's routine on it.

Richard


I have the Levent set, and its FANTASTIC. I would like to see one of the videos of Roy Benson himself doing the routine because I want to see more Benson performance footage.

-Leo
Anatole
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Alan Wakeling's routine is very close to the Benson routine. I remember reading in "The Magic of Alan Wakeling" that Alan did the routine at either The Magic Castle or for one of Milt Larsen's "It's Magic!" revues. Wakeling relates how Dai Vernon came up to him after the show and asked him where he learned the routine. Alan told the Professor that Roy Benson taught it to him. Vernon was somewhat skeptical and called Benson and asked him if he did indeed teach him the routine that Wakeling did on the show. Benson confirmed that he did. He asked Vernon if Wakeling did a good job. Vernon confirmed that he did it very well.

Alan Wakeling was also a consultant on "The Magic Land of Allakazam." I am pretty sure that Mark Wilson did the Wakeling routine on one of his TV shows. That and, as Richard points out, Levent's recreation in "Ultimate Guide to the Billiard Balls" is probably as close to a video of the Benson routine as we'll ever see.

Since you comment: "I want to see more Benson performance footage" you will be interested to know that there is indeed a DVD included in the deluxe edition of _Roy Benson by Starlight_,. There are two video performances--one from a magic special hosted by Garry Moore and one on Paul Tripp's "It's Magic." But neither of those has the billiard ball routine.

I do recommend that you buy the book if you can find a copy. It may be sold out. The detail that Levent and Todd Karr go to in the book is amazing. There were two editions--a deluxe edition with the DVD and an edition without the DVD. But I think they're both sold out. Your next bet is the Levent DVD set on billiard balls. You can read the contents by checking Levent's website.

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
JNeal
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Quote:
On 2012-06-06 20:12, Anatole wrote:
"I am pretty sure that Mark Wilson did the Wakeling routine on one of his TV shows."

I would agree with almost everything Anatole writes in the previous message...except the line above.

Alan never taught his routine to Mark (despite some pressure to do so), but he did teach it to Mark's son Greg...who features it regularly and has performed it on video as well.
He has since adapted it to his own persona and working conditions ,while retaining the core of the routine. Mark also did a billiard routine (Not Alan's or Roy's) in which he and Greg performed identical actions simultaneously.

The one person who did Alan's routine most accurately was Earl Nelson. I have seen both Alan and Earl do it and the timing and phrasing are identical. Alan regarded Earl as a protege' and personally taught him the billiards as well as the 'bar act'.

With so many versions of the billiards ...it's easy to get confused!

Another note: I have seen footage of both Levent and Benson doing the billiards...and Levent's presentation is completely faithful to the original.

Regards-JNeal

Regards to all-

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Pete Biro
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What is Mark Kalin's routine based on? Wakeling's?
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Stanyon
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Yep!
Stanyon

aka Steve Taylor

"Every move a move!"

"If you've enjoyed my performance half as much as I've enjoyed performing for you, then you've enjoyed it twice as much as me!"
JNeal
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Pete Biro wrote:

'What is Mark Kalin's routine based on? Wakeling's?"

Mark's current routine I think is based on Alan Wakelings. But Mark has had a number of routines over the years.

First version was in his old billiard theme act (with the balls, cue, rack,etc;) which was a traditional for ball routine, 4 ball climax and a jumbo 7" finale production from a pail...if I recall.

Second routine was a sit down on a bar stool typer routine that was based on seeing my sit down bar stool billiards routine (1981).
Mark's version though, had a aluminum bowl adjacent to the stool for loads etc;

His latest version is based on Alan's in concept, but I think he has incorporated some bits from his previous versions...and I think I saw him doing this seated as well on a video.
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Pete Biro
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I saw him last weekend and he sat on the stool and had what looked like a wooden box about the size of a cigar box. Single spot, good music and flawless performance. So simple too... no body loads ala Buckingham ;o)
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JNeal
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Sounds like how I remember it when I was it last.

Body loads can be a problem when seated...I used to have two steals I had to make (when I used to do it regularly) and it required perfect timing and intention. Of this, Slydini was a master.
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leomagnus
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I have the regular edition of Benson by Starlight, which is now out of print I believe, and there are pictures of a video of Roy Benson doing the billiards. Levent actually mentions watching videos of Roy Benson doing the billiards in the book.
Anatole
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Thanks, JNeal, for correcting my memory of which member of the Wilson family did the Wakeling routine. I sometimes get Mark's sons confused. Mike is the older son who appeared with Mike and Nani on "The Magicland of Allakazem" in the 60's, right? Greg must be a younger son who appeared on the TV specials. I do think I remember seeing Greg do the Wakeling routine on TV.

-----Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
Levent
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Sorry for chiming in so late. There are two films in the hands of private collection of Benson doing the balls. Unfortunately, we were not allowed to release the video as a condition of being able to use the videos to learn the routine for Bensons book. I do however let people sometimes see the footage when asked during my lectures or if I happen to be at a convention. I am just prohibited from giving it away and from putting it in the deluxe edition of the book. So if you happen to see me, just ask and I'll be happy to let you look at it on my computer as many times as you want.
leomagnus
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Quote:
On 2012-06-11 17:46, Levent wrote:
Sorry for chiming in so late. There are two films in the hands of private collection of Benson doing the balls. Unfortunately, we were not allowed to release the video as a condition of being able to use the videos to learn the routine for Bensons book. I do however let people sometimes see the footage when asked during my lectures or if I happen to be at a convention. I am just prohibited from giving it away and from putting it in the deluxe edition of the book. So if you happen to see me, just ask and I'll be happy to let you look at it on my computer as many times as you want.


If I get the chance, count on me asking.

-Leo
Jerry
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Levent, the person or persons who have the footage of Benson performing his billiard act, do they intend of releasing a DVD?
Bill Hegbli
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Quote:
On 2012-06-23 22:12, Jerry wrote:
Levent, the person or persons who have the footage of Benson performing his billiard act, do they intend of releasing a DVD?


That is part of the idea of collecting, having something no one else has. It is an internal desire that collectors have in them. So I do not see this happening as they may feel it diminishes what they have in their position.

You know, the old, I have it and you don't, syndrome.

I have a question for you, "How much would you pay to possess a copy of Benson's Billiard Ball routine?" A hundred dollars, two hundred dollars, or even a thousand dollars.
Anatole
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One might hope that eventually one of the commercial magic companies like Todd Karr's "The Miracle Factory" will find a way to secure the rights to a performance of Roy Benson performing his billiard ball routine, as was done with the Milbourne Christopher special "It's Magic" that had Benson performing his salt pour and Chinese sticks routine.

In the meantime we can be grateful that someone of Levent's calibre is willing and able to reconstruct and commit to video classic routines like Benson's in projects like "The Ultimate Guide to the Billiard Balls." Since Levent had actual footage of Benson performing the ball routine as a guide, I am confident that he reproduced that routine with great fidelity, whereas recreating the full Cardini ball routine required considerable research and extrapolation, for which I am equally grateful. The bonus is that with Levent's DVD set, we get not only the performance but a detailed analysis and explanation.

Likewise I am grateful for people like James Dimmare for sharing with the magic community some of Channing Pollock's dove production techniques in his DVD set "The Dove Whisperer." Knowledge like this deserves to be documented and preserved for future generations.

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
Michael Baker
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Bill Hegbli
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Great find, anything that was ever televised on television is available to networks. There is an organization in New York City that houses every Kinescope and television show ever produced. I believe it is only available to networks, though.

Roy Benson was only around in he days of Black and White Film. Performances from Magic Conventions are only privately held films. Film conversion is very expensive, of course there are cheaper ways to convert old 8 and 16 mm film, but they usually do not turn out very well.

That version of Benson performing the Billiard Ball trick does not sound like what I read in the I read in the Wakeling book. It read more artistically presented, balls being held at arms length and such.

So - was this version adjusted for television (?) so the camera could come closer?

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