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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
Wakeling 's book features his own routine which differs from Benson's own, although largely adhering to Benson's principles: the right hand acts as a holder or shelf , and to avoid producing a ball directly from the shell. To see Alan do this routine was to see it look just like the book, and was performed most faithfully (to the original) by Earl Nelson
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
I thought Benson used a gimmicked box? Was it only Greg Wilson that used the box?
To me there are so many changes for each performer, I don't see what make these offspring routines can be considered similar. What makes them similar. Benson taught Wakling, who changed the routine, and never had a chance to show his changes to Benson. Wakling then then taught Earl Nelson, of which we do not know what direction Nelson went with his routine. Wakling then taught Greg Wilson, who went in his own direction as well using a box to as a dropper, and performing it seated. This was shown on World Greatest Magic television show a few years ago. As performed by Benson in the above video, it looks to me like a very confusing routine, with not very much showmanship. Just don't get the laying of the balls in the right hand, as it does nothing for the finale. |
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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
It is not absolutely certain that Benson ever used the Ball Box in a professional working situation, although Levent makes a good case for how and why it could be used.
I believe that mark Kalin MAY have used a box to get loads from in one of his versions (he has had several Billiard routines) of the Wakeling handling. To be clearer, Benson taught Wakeling the fundamental principles of his thinking: right hand as display, left hand is the producing agent, and avoid productions directly from the shell. He also suggested to Alan that starting with two balls rather than one, gave you a bigger finish. Other than that, Wakeling did his own 'thing'. Wakeling only taught Nelson and Greg Wilson personally. everyone else learned it from the book. Greg Wilson learned it exactly as Alan did I it, he has subsequently adapted it to suit his own taste and working conditions. Similarly with Kalin, he learned it from the book and has changed parts of it. It was not Wilson who performed it seated, it was Kalin. But the person from whom Kalin got the idea to do the Billiards while seated... Was ME! In my estimation ONLY Earl Nelson does it exactly like Alsn did. There is video footage of Earl doing this at the Magic Castle circa 1980. Bill, I absolutely agree with you- this routine on the above video does not 'build' to a direct climax. If I were to compare Wakeling's and Benson's routines based on the videos... I prefer Alan's: it is clearer in design.
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Thanks JNeal.
Yes, as soon as I read Kalin, I know I typed the wrong name who was on World's Greatest. My bad, drawing from memory, seen Kalin in my mind, and typed Wilson. I read about the box someplace, can't recall where right now, checked the Wakeling book, not in there, maybe in Benson, but that book is hard to get to right now. |
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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
Yes Bill, you are right....it is in the Benson book I'll PM you with some other details....
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gallagher Inner circle 1168 Posts |
Mister Michael Baker,
that really made my day, tonight. wow. Really great. Roy Benson's work, especially with the ball(s) has always inspired me. I fumble through trying to understand his work, ..feeling it, trying it,. fighting with it,.. tonight SEEING IT(!),.. blew me away. I really appreciate seeing this. Thanks for looking,.. thanks for finding... thanks for posting. Gallagher Hayes |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
I liked the simple version in John Booth's Marvels of Mystery
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Anatole Inner circle 1912 Posts |
Jneal mentioned that his "Second routine was a sit down on a bar stool typer routine that was based on seeing my sit down bar stool billiards routine (1981)."
I remember reading in an old _GENII_ maybe back in the 60's that there was a convention (PCAM maybe?) where three magicians (Chavez students maybe?) sat on a bar stool and each did an act. I imagine that the spotlight focused on one of the three while they were performing and then moved to the next one. Does that ring any bells with anyone? One of my friends--Jerry Maynard--did a manipulation act sitting on a barstool. You can see a photo of the act here: http://tinyurl.com/jerry-maynard Jerry's act was pantomime, producing balls and silks from his mouth. I lost contact with Jerry sometime in the mid-to-late 60's. If his name rings a bell with anyone, please PM me. An idea for an act that I had a few decades ago was to sit on a bar stool--and the openings of the legs were masked with a material matching the backdrop behind the performer. That would provide cover for a load--like a huge billiard ball--that could be produced from a 36-inch silk. ----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
Very interesting Anatole! I'm not claiming to be the first to do manipulation while sitting on a barstool. Far from it! I'm just saying that it WAS the inspiration for Mark Kalin. Actually , I KNOW where I got the idea: There is a photo in an early John Mulholland book which shows Fred Keatong sitting on a bar stool with a fan deck of cards, and his assistant Alexander looking over his shoulder ( more or less). This not only inspired me, but unbeknownst to me, was the inspiration for Alton Sharpe doing a thimble routine while seated. Alton told me so around 1980!
It actually makes good sense to do certain small effects while perched on a bar stool. It gives them both a gravitas and a relaxed attitude. The novelty of performing when seated is also appealing.
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Leo H Inner circle 1333 Posts |
There's a photo of Alan Wakeling in the Wakeling book performing his billiard ball routine seated on a barstool. I believe it was when he did the Circus Act because he is attired in a classic lion tamer's costume.
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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
Alan also used the bar stool set up, as a way of amplifying a Flip Over box ala Gwynne... to a take apart vanish ala "Where do the Ducks Go".
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Anatole Inner circle 1912 Posts |
JNeal,
Which John Mulholland book had a picture of Fred Keating sitting on a stool with a fan of cards? Fred Keating is a magician who I'd like to learn more about. ----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
I can't be sure..I'm thinking "The Story of Magic" circa 1935.
There hasn't been enough written about Keating, but his own essays are great to read from the Sphinx. And there was a nice section in the recent book about Milbourne Christopher that told me a few things about Keating that I wasn't aware of. He of course was the prototype (in the magic community for the kind of Comedy Magician we used to see more frequently: urbane, witty and topical. Henry Clive was also ahead of him in a way... and he was inspired I suspect by vaudevillian Frank Fay.
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Scott Alexander V.I.P. 1471 Posts |
Frank Fay was da man! Really the birth of the Stand Up Comedy Magician archetype.
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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
Frank Fay wasn't always the best loved performer by his contemporaries, but he was brilliant and as you say, he changed the entire style of comedy.
Bob Hope learned a lot from watching Frank Fay! Scott, have you read "The Comedians" by Kliph Nesteroff? You'd find it fascinating. It is the complete story of 20th (and early 21st) Century of Comedy in America.
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Scott Alexander V.I.P. 1471 Posts |
NO....BUT I WILL NOW!!!!
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mtpascoe Inner circle 1932 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 22, 2016, Bill Hegbli wrote: This seems like the version Levent describes in his book about Benson. This routine did seemed rushed. I wonder if that was for television. It's still a joy to watch though. There are elements of the Wakeling version that is not like the Benson version and the same can be said about Benson's version. I think the best thing to do is combine the both for a really great routine. |
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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
Well of course, Wakeling was inspired , influenced, and was taught the underlying PRINCIPLES by Roy Benson. But he was too much of an artist to duplicate exactly what Roy Benson did. He filtered the PRINCIPLES through his own subjective Point of view and personality.
Roy Benson was a more gregarious personality than Alan and his routines reflect that... Alan was a architect at heart and the clarity of focus he brings from that, certainly affected how he would structure a routine. For that reason, I think Alan's routine is more adaptable to many other performers... because it isn't laden with the digressions and bits that work best in Benson's routine... for Benson.
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