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LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:20, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:17, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Proof of some supernarural being that created everything. Supernatural claims require proof.


I never made that claim, so I really don't know what you're talking about.

Ron


Don't worry about it...he tried to make me a theist, too.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
kambiz
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:35, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Nobody should mock a belief. I don't happen to believe, but I would never try to take someone's right to believe in anything they wish away.


Thanks Jeff Smile

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
R.S.
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:38, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:20, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:17, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Proof of some supernarural being that created everything. Supernatural claims require proof.


I never made that claim, so I really don't know what you're talking about.

Ron


Don't worry about it...he tried to make me a theist, too.


Lobo, I think you're confusing me with Jeff The Unamazing Hack.

I always understood that you were NOT a theist, as you have made that plainly clear.

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
R.S.
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:36, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:17, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Proof of some supernarural being that created everything. Supernatural claims require proof.


Of course they don't. No more than atheist's unproven claim "There is no God."


Some atheists perhaps. I do not and never have, made that claim.

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
R.S.
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:43, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:38, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:20, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:17, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Proof of some supernarural being that created everything. Supernatural claims require proof.


I never made that claim, so I really don't know what you're talking about.

Ron


Don't worry about it...he tried to make me a theist, too.


Lobo, I think you're confusing me with Jeff The Unamazing Hack.

I always understood that you were NOT a theist, as you have made that plainly clear.

Ron



MY APOLOGIES LOBO!! I'M THE ONE WHO'S CONFUSED!!! I thought you were speaking to Old Scratch. OK, time for me to take a break I guess.

Ron
:_)
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:43, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:38, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:20, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:17, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Proof of some supernarural being that created everything. Supernatural claims require proof.


I never made that claim, so I really don't know what you're talking about.

Ron


Don't worry about it...he tried to make me a theist, too.


Lobo, I think you're confusing me with Jeff The Unamazing Hack.

I always understood that you were NOT a theist, as you have made that plainly clear.

Ron


I was responding to you, but talking about the statement he made about your post.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
tommy
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Maybe god is not supernatural but rather knows secret methods, that gives him the ability to do whatever he does.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 18:57, R.S. wrote:


And isn't a "God" some sort of supreme being/person/entity? So strictly speaking, Deists do believe in a God and not just a "power", no? I guess I'm just looking for clarification of terms here. I have no quibbles with your position.



Not from my perspective. "God," "Higher Power," "Grand Architect," "A Power Greater Than Me that I Don't Understand" are all basically synonymous to me. BUT, and this is what I think you are getting at, as a Deist, based solely on reason and observation of the universe, I DO believe (and it is, admittedly just a belief) that there was an intelligence behind it. Otherwise I'd be an atheist.

Keep in mind, though, that I freely admit that it is simply my conclusion and is certainly subject to change. I am simply acting on the assumption that there is (or was) a creative intelligence, whereas atheists seem to be acting on the assumption that there is not. Both views are assumptions that cannot be empirically proven. I just like mine better, fully understanding that I may well be full of sh!t.

If there is a God, I think I honor Him by trying to use the brain he gave me. If not, I try to use it anyway. Either way, I keep on thinking.

Good thoughts,

Bob
tommy
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He might make a DVD one day.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
R.S.
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:49, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 18:57, R.S. wrote:


And isn't a "God" some sort of supreme being/person/entity? So strictly speaking, Deists do believe in a God and not just a "power", no? I guess I'm just looking for clarification of terms here. I have no quibbles with your position.



Not from my perspective. "God," "Higher Power," "Grand Architect," "A Power Greater Than Me that I Don't Understand" are all basically synonymous to me. BUT, and this is what I think you are getting at, as a Deist, based solely on reason and observation of the universe, I DO believe (and it is, admittedly just a belief) that there was an intelligence behind it. Otherwise I'd be an atheist.

Keep in mind, though, that I freely admit that it is simply my conclusion and is certainly subject to change. I am simply acting on the assumption that there is (or was) a creative intelligence, whereas atheists seem to be acting on the assumption that there is not. Both views are assumptions that cannot be empirically proven. I just like mine better, fully understanding that I may well be full of sh!t.

If there is a God, I think I honor Him by trying to use the brain he gave me. If not, I try to use it anyway. Either way, I keep on thinking.

Good thoughts,

Bob


Understood. Thanks for that clarification Bob!

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:32, kambiz wrote:

I never mock, deride, laugh at other peoples beliefs, so what has the Baha'i faith done to deserve mockery?

Kam


Nor do I, Kam. But simple disagreement with the tenets of your faith is not mockery. Not from me, anyway.

I was just responding to your seeming conclusion that if we disagree with the tenets of Baha'i we must therefore be misunderstanding them.

Good thoughts,

Bob
Jeff J.
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:36, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:17, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Proof of some supernarural being that created everything. Supernatural claims require proof.


Of course they don't. No more than atheist's unproven claim "There is no God."


You are mistaken. We as atheists make no claims at all. All the claims are up to those who choose to hold supernatural beliefs.

Our job is easy. We don't have to believe anything and we have our Sunday's free.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:49, tommy wrote:
Maybe god is not supernatural but rather knows secret methods, that gives him the ability to do whatever he does.



Cassidy?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
critter
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Kam doesn't mock beliefs, he just mocks people.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Jeff J.
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:38, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:20, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:17, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Proof of some supernarural being that created everything. Supernatural claims require proof.


I never made that claim, so I really don't know what you're talking about.

Ron


Don't worry about it...he tried to make me a theist, too.


:)
kambiz
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:58, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:32, kambiz wrote:

I never mock, deride, laugh at other peoples beliefs, so what has the Baha'i faith done to deserve mockery?

Kam


Nor do I, Kam. But simple disagreement with the tenets of your faith is not mockery. Not from me, anyway.

I was just responding to your seeming conclusion that if we disagree with the tenets of Baha'i we must therefore be misunderstanding them.

Good thoughts,

Bob


I keep telling you Bob. Some of my posts are addressed to a few others, or maybe many others, but most times not you, unless I address you by name. You have disagreed with me on several occasions, and have presented your reasons respectfully and rationally. I find that wholesomely productive to the thread and to my understandings of the mysteries of life.

However, look at some of the mockeries that have been made towards the Baha'i faith in this thread alone, let alone some of the other threads.

As I've said several times, my intention is to bring a slightly different perspective to the discussion to hopefully enrich it. Some it seems do not like that....

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
kambiz
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 20:26, critter wrote:
Kam doesn't mock beliefs, he just mocks people.


Thanks mate Smile

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
critter
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Any time.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 20:20, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:36, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:17, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Proof of some supernarural being that created everything. Supernatural claims require proof.


Of course they don't. No more than atheist's unproven claim "There is no God."


You are mistaken. We as atheists make no claims at all.


I should have written "an" before "atheist's". Some atheists certainly DO claim that there is no God, but I invited the confusion by writing an imprecise post.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 20:20, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:36, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:17, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Proof of some supernarural being that created everything. Supernatural claims require proof.

Of course they don't. No more than atheist's unproven claim "There is no God."

You are mistaken. We as atheists make no claims at all. All the claims are up to those who choose to hold supernatural beliefs.

Our job is easy. We don't have to believe anything and we have our Sunday's free.

Didn't we go through this about 20 pages ago?

athe·ist \ˈâ-thç-ist\ n: one who believes that there is no deity.

Atheists do, in fact, make a claim: there is no God. And they cannot prove that claim.

If you believe nothing (with respect to the existence of God), you might be an agnostic, but you're not an atheist.
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