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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts 
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On 2012-07-03 16:02, Old Scratch Johnson wrote: Old Scratch is correct, in a sense. Long ago the word "atheist" was often used by the Church to refer to anyone who subscribed to a different religious belief or did not accept the Christian God. Thus, Thomas Paine, who was a Deist and decidedly NOT an atheist (in fact he wrote "The Age of Reason" to stem the tide of atheism in France) was referred to by the Church as an atheist. (As were those they considered heretics.) That definition, however, is archaic and is no longer in common use. The most common definitions, and the ones I am using in my argument, are basically these: Theist- Believes in God Atheist- Believes there is no God Agnostic- Is not sure if there is a God and/or feels that it is an issue beyond the scope of man's knowledge. "Neo" or New Atheism is a term that describes much of the so-called "atheism" we see today. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Atheism Interestingly, though, as I have noted before, even the arch atheist Richard Dawkins has conceded that a serious argument can be made the the existence of a deistic god: Quote:
This week’s debate, however, was different because from the off Dawkins moved it onto safer territory– and at the very beginning made a most startling admission. He said: For more see: http://college-ethics.blogspot.com/2008/......tor.html In other words, by the definitions I am using, the arch atheist himself is actually an agnostic whose primary case is against organized religion and non-scientific thought. Good thoughts, |
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Andre Hagen Inner circle 1432 Posts
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The "God Particle"
There is an announcement coming up tomorrow regarding the possibility that the Higgs Boson (as the physicists call it) has been identified at CERN. This would be better than 42 as an answer to life, the universe and everything! Andre
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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On 2012-07-03 21:03, Pakar Ilusi wrote: If information or a notion affects behavior - it's operationally real, it becomes a "that which" in our ongoing dialog about what's happening and how we relate to our experiences of what's happening. Since methods of recruitment/indoctrination and the political consequences of such are off bounds as topics at the Café - I have to leave off with "it's useful" as regards the notion of god(s).
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Jeff J. Special user Connecticut 787 Posts
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On 2012-07-03 21:13, LobowolfXXX wrote: :) |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts
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On 2012-07-03 18:33, Jonathan Townsend wrote: What? 
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts
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On 2012-07-03 18:41, Pakar Ilusi wrote: Hee, hee...Where did they come from? Who created them?
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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On 2012-07-04 21:59, acesover wrote: Let's posit that some of them are a few hundred thousand years ahead of us and make an offer to clean up our what they claim to be a "cargo cult" version of their True Faith. Will you tithe to them? Will you let go of what they assert are falshoods and crude misunderstandings of their Faith which somehow has not taken root correctly here? (history buffs will recall how 'other schools' were standardized not so long ago). Hint: think Star Trek IV but with whales as the annointed ones.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-03 21:52, Andre Hagen wrote: Seriously? The number 42? Its biggest claim to fame is Doougls Adams Book The Hitchikers Guide. If you read aabout this number it has to confuse you because it just rambles on and on about irrelovent concepts. It sounds bad in Japanese. It is this kind of number and that kind of number and it comes after 41 and before 43. So what do you mean when you say, "This would be better than 42 as an answer to life, the universe and everything!" What does that mean? Honestly I never gave any thought to the number 42 as the answer to life. Did I miss something? I mean if you climbed the mountain, and asked. What is life and you got the answer 42. I think I would have to smack him. 
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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On 2012-07-04 22:19, acesover wrote:... I think I would have to smack him. So your version of faith, piety and humility is about smacking people who dissapoint you. Glad you are where you are. Peace be upon you.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-04 22:16, Jonathan Townsend wrote: I cannot answer that becaause I do not know anything about their faith. Do they believe in a Supreme Being? Or do they feel they are the product of an accident that we now can attribute to something called 'The God Particle"? I need more information about these aliens before I can take them at their word.
Your senario sounds a little like the Original, "The Day the Earth Stood Still". concept. Not to be confused with the atrocity recently produced using the same title.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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On 2012-07-04 22:19, acesover wrote: You may have missed the ultimate question: What do you get if you multiply six by nine?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Atrocity? IMHO the key moment comes in the dialog between the alien and the child where the alien understands the child is impulsive and incapable of being responsible for his words/actions. IMHO the scene worked. It's not the same preaching as in the Ziggy sashes back into his spaceship from the B/W movie - and IMHO still misses the point that the robot is the boss and 'klatu' is just the messenger monkey on this trip.
? the "original" of Day the Earth Stood is the short story "Farwell to the Master". It happens to be online so here's a link Not sure how well what you are asking about would go over with the newly arrived agents of True Faith. It might get a response (again see history) like "you presume to interrogate the followers of the prophet Shamu to answer your mundane questions about matters of misunderstood Faith..." You might enjoy "Bulk Food" by Peter Watts and hope that the Star Trek IV scenario is not on its way now. or perhaps something involving the Case Nightmare Green scnenario would be more to your taste? 
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Klatu aside, acesover you might find the discussion in Scalzi's latest book "Redshirts" pertinant to this topic, not to mention cogent and a fun read.
:)
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-04 22:36, Jonathan Townsend wrote: While you may feel that scene worked. The movie missed the mark by several light years. I was excited when I heard that there was going to be a remake. But after corresponding with a few other collectors before the movie came out they definitely had me disenchanted with most saying it will not hold up to the original and should not be produced, unfortunately they were correct. It was as I stated earlier and atrocity. I assume you viewed the original. I have a few favorie movies and the original, "The DAy the Earath Stood Still" is one of my favorites so much so that I have quite a bit of memrobelia from it including an original movie poster that I acquired 15 years ago. Also, signed scripts by Rennie, Neal and Jaffe, along with lobby cards and several figures of Gort and the Flying Saucer. I guess my disappoint was that the later production did not resemble the original film at all. Some may have enjoyed it but I did not and do not have one piece of material from it. Klaatu barada nikto
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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At a guess you're missing that "klatu" is just a low level messenger who happens to look presentable to the savages that the ship is visiting.
I prefer the story in its 'as written' form. As effective as the B/W film is an enthymeme about Americana, IMHO the rest of the message of the story is lost to a jingoist message. IMHO Klatu's parting speech gets lost into echos of the other alien's (Eros) speech from Plan Nine about stupid earthmen and solarite. Any thoughts on the Scalzi story? How about Peter Watts's take on the Star Trek IV warning? Waiting for what Stross and the Laundry call "Case Nightmare Green"?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Jeff J. Special user Connecticut 787 Posts
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On 2012-07-03 16:18, LobowolfXXX wrote: I don't believe so. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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On 2012-07-04 23:20, Old Scratch Johnson wrote: I remain first person singular - though that's debatable.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-04 23:20, Old Scratch Johnson wrote: Quote:
On 2012-07-03 16:33, Old Scratch Johnson wrote: You were right the first time.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Jeff J. Special user Connecticut 787 Posts
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On 2012-07-04 23:22, Jonathan Townsend wrote: I always leave the possibility open that I may be wrong, but I always hope I'm not. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Being a bad boy here - a link to the other alien's speech: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhvDMhrws1o
mash that into Michael Rennie's moment in Day the Earth Stood still 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_seKyGYlTHY stupid! Stupid! You could also notice how well the "any group anywhere" is lost on so many race of robots... absolute power... nice  .
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Posted: Jul 4, 2012 01:36 am 
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