The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » A TOUGH QUESTION TO ANSWER.. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3..6..9..12..14~15~16~17~18..28..37..46..55..64~65~66 [Next]
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 01:52, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 01:40, acesover wrote:
You naysayers of the bible confuse me. Why would you worry about something you know does not exist and is all made up? Why would you discuss the bible when you know it not to be true or factual? What would be your point?


I discuss books from everyone from Shakespeare to Stephen King that aren't true or factual. I love literature. What is so confusing about that?


I understand that. However those books were written for your entertainment not as a way to live your life.

There is nothing confusing about your love for literature. What is confusing is your trying to prove that the bible is fiction, while many believe it is not. Why must you try and prove your errorenous point? Smile My question is why are you so set on proving your point? What makes it so important to you to try and prove it is fiction? The reason I ask is because in your post you seem to put it in the same category as Stephen Kings and Shakesphere writings and I checked here on The Café and did not find you discussing any of there writings as you do the bible. Seems as if you put it in the category of fiction but are obsessed by the bible. Kind of a strange reaction over a book that you believes to be fiction. So again I am asking. Of all the books you have read and it seems that according to you it is many, why single out the bible?

I am not pulling these questions out of the air as you are the one who put the bible in this category not me. If there are other books which you feel so strongly about I would be curious to know which ones they are that evoke such fervor in you to discuss them as you do the bible...for they must be very interesting and profound and thought provoking and would make for a very interesting thread here on The Café.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Slide
View Profile
Special user
533 Posts

Profile of Slide
Be happy to start a shakespeare thread. I just don't think anyone would post to it.

"and we do not beat our children when they show signs of being gay. We understand that being gay is a natural process. However, marriages under Catholicism are supposed to be formed for the sake of creation."

First, yes you do: not you personally, but I'll be happy to send you link after link after link of preachers proposing this very thing. Very recently too.

And so if a couple is infertile are they not allowed to marry? If they cannot create a child and need to adopt, that means they are not married in your eyes? Should we pass a law that states if you do not have children, your marriage is automatically null and void?

Sorry, it is a specious argument
Slide
View Profile
Special user
533 Posts

Profile of Slide
"What makes it so important to you to try and prove it is fiction?"

Because as a result of your belief people are killed, children are beaten, wars are fought, people are denied the pursuit of happiness.

Because people believe it to be the word of god, The Westboro Baptist church protests at times of people's most sorrowful moments. They say God hates Fags because the bible tells them that. They pollute the earth because it is the end of days. Natural disasters are seen as god's punishment. Do I need to go on. Because people believe in the veracity of the bible, they make the earth a more dangerous, hateful, judgmental, place.
Payne
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle
4572 Posts

Profile of Payne
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 01:24, The great Gumbini wrote:

A Prophet MUST MUST MUST speak the truth. The Bible is clear AGAIN on this. It teaches if a person claims to be a prophet and says a certain thing will happen and it does not. Then we are not to believe that person is a prophet.



Then what are we to make of these prophecies?

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Christ proclaime that he will return before a generation passes. Clearly he was wrong. So by your own admission we must reject his status as a prophet Smile
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Payne
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle
4572 Posts

Profile of Payne
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 02:53, Bill Hilly wrote:

All I ask is to have my cat. I am in tears now and can’t write anymore.



Hang in their and know you've got friends here on the Café to call on in your time of need. I lost a great cat a few years ago. It's tough. but a new cat soon came into our lives a little while later. I'm sure that when the time comes a new cat will find you too.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
TomBoleware
View Profile
Inner circle
Hattiesburg, Ms
2766 Posts

Profile of TomBoleware
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 02:53, Bill Hilly wrote:
I’m going to bare my heart here and answer acesover’s question about what would prove the existence of God to me.

My mother has Alzheimer’s Disease. Seven weeks ago she had a mini stroke. She’s recovering from that, physically, but she’s losing blocks of memory with increasing frequency. There are blocks of years that she can’t remember now. My dad had a couple of strokes last year and is losing control of his body in different ways each day. Monday he couldn’t stand or walk. Tuesday he could. This afternoon he couldn’t recognize who my mom was. This evening he could. I am staying with them now and have stopped taking gigs to care for them full time. And I am watching them die a little more each day.

My cat has been my source of comfort through this. I hold her and pet her and cry myself to sleep some nights. It’s difficult to explain how important she is to my wellbeing. Last month I was told she has cancer and will die in three to four months. She’s eight years old. Almost all of the other pets I’ve had lived to be 18 to 20 years old, so I was kind of counting another eight years with her.

My heart is breaking and I am in such sadness that I can literally feel the life force leaving me. I have accepted what is happening to my parents since I have seen it with three of my grandparents too. But with all of this happening at once I really no longer have a desire to live. In fact, I feel now that I plan to leave this world after I have taken care of my family’s final needs.

I have prayed, prayed sincerely. I have prayed that my cat’s cancer disappears and that I can have her for at least a few years after my parents are gone. I have no one else. If that would happen, not only would it prove for me the existence of God, but also the power of prayer. And if that would happen I state here and now, in public, that I will dedicate my life to preaching and proclaiming the Word of God and the power of prayer to all who will hear me.

All I ask is to have my cat. I am in tears now and can’t write anymore.



Bill, I pray for you too.

Your family is very blessed to have someone like you to care for them. God certainly provided for them when he put you on this earth.

Hang in there my friend, you will be rewarded. Your time will come.

I've lost several pets over my lifetime and I know it's never easy. They too become a big part of the family. While I've never tried to 'replace' a lost pet, I did find that a new one did help with the healing.

I've never owned but one cat but I haven't forgot him. Got him when I was a child and he lived to be twenty years old. I thought that was some kind of world record for a cat. Later in life I got a cat for my young son. He carried the kitten around by the neck and it didn't take long for that poor cat to realize he was in the wrong place, so he went back home in a hurry. Never owned another cat, but I have raised a few house dogs over the years. Today we have a ****zu dog that's about five years old. I understand how pets do become family.

Bill, stay strong and if you ever need help or just need somebody to talk too, you know where to find me. We all here for you if you need us.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Acesover-

Please cite the post in which I said the Bible was fiction. That may be difficult because I have repeatedly stated my opinion that it is a combination of history, folklore, poetry, allegory, metaphor etc.

It is also one of the most widely read and influential books in history.

It is, therefore, impossible to understand much of human history and thought without a knowledge of the Bible.

Do I accept it unconditionally as literal truth? Obviously not. Is it important work? Obviously yes.

So why wouldn't I want to discuss it?
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1191 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 10:45, Slide wrote:
Be happy to start a shakespeare thread. I just don't think anyone would post to it.


Why don't? I certainly would. I can't be the only former English major around here.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1191 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 10:50, Slide wrote:
"What makes it so important to you to try and prove it is fiction?"

Because as a result of your belief people are killed, children are beaten, wars are fought, people are denied the pursuit of happiness.


So are you saying that Christianity is a net minus for the planet?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 11:36, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 10:45, Slide wrote:
Be happy to start a shakespeare thread. I just don't think anyone would post to it.


Why don't? I certainly would. I can't be the only former English major around here.


You're not. You knew I was an English major didn't you? (That's what forced me into law school - there were no teaching jobs to speak of available at the time and law school was the only option.)

I'm still a bit baffled by acesover's confusion as to why I would be so interested in the Bible. When I was in college we studied the Bible as literature, myth and literature, psychology and literature as well as most of the classic works.

How would it be remotely possible, for example, to begin to understand the works of James Joyce and other major writers without understanding bibilical and mythological allusions, etc.?
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1191 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
To say nothing of Milton.

"The Bible as Literature" was one of my undergrad electives. Interesting class.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 11:51, LobowolfXXX wrote:
To say nothing of Milton.


Or Dante. (Or Andrew Lloyd Webber, for that matter.)
Woland
View Profile
Special user
680 Posts

Profile of Woland
"Facts" and "truth" do not necessarily coincide. I think it would be possible for someone to assert that the Bible is not necessarily factual, but does communicate the truth.
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 12:11, Woland wrote:
"Facts" and "truth" do not necessarily coincide. I think it would be possible for someone to assert that the Bible is not necessarily factual, but does communicate the truth.


Absolutely. The same can be said about most classic works. There is as much truth to be found in Shakespeare, et al, and the poets, as in any work of non-fiction.
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1191 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Maybe more, in Shakespeare.

Highly recommended reading -

"Shakespeare: The Invention of The Human," by Harold Bloom.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 08:54, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-13 15:51, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-13 15:33, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-13 15:23, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-13 13:52, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-13 13:48, acesover wrote:
Is it really that difficult for people to see that they must accept God through their Free Will?

It would mean nothing if he made you accept Him.

It is like giving you a piece of marble and asking you to create a masterpiece. But instead of using a chisel and sculptor tools we set up a computer system that does all the work for you and carves out a statue. All you had to do was turn on a switch and it was done for you. Is that really a masterpiece? Well that is the arguement that many give here. Why doesn'tGod just make me do it as he is God? Because He loved you so much He gave you free will to determine your own destiny. It is really quite simple.


He loves you so much that he gave you a chance to go to Hell?

Smile


And some choose it.

If He gave you no choice what would that be like? Take responsibility for your own actions. Grow up. Blame no one but yourself for your situation. You had choices and you made them. Now live and die with those choices. Simple as that.


Hmm, too bad for Gandhi. He was such a nice man, did some good things too...

Well...


Are you comparing yourself to Gandhi? If not what point are you trying to make?


That Gandhi was not Christian and is destined for eternal ***ation by the Christian version of God.


You have this on good authority that Gandhi is eternally ****ed? Here I thougth that would be between God and Gandhi. You must have inside info. don't' let it get out that you have an inside contact or everyone will want to talk to you. Smile

Your mailbox will be full. shhhhh
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
critter
View Profile
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2551 Posts

Profile of critter
Carrie Sue told me in NVMS that Gandhi went to Hell for being an unbeliever when I asked her. I think it was last year. Apparently, she's the one with the inside info.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1191 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Those who say he didn't go there apparently have some inside info, too.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
satellite23
View Profile
Elite user
424 Posts

Profile of satellite23
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 10:45, Slide wrote:
"and we do not beat our children when they show signs of being gay. We understand that being gay is a natural process. However, marriages under Catholicism are supposed to be formed for the sake of creation."

First, yes you do: not you personally, but I'll be happy to send you link after link after link of preachers proposing this very thing. Very recently too.


Well, I have never really heard of those stories. Thanks for giving me a different view. However, I do not believe that the Church--meaning the Vatican condones such behavior. Unjust violence is a big no-no of Catholicism, and that is an unjust cause.

Quote:
On 2012-06-14 10:45, Slide wrote:
And so if a couple is infertile are they not allowed to marry? If they cannot create a child and need to adopt, that means they are not married in your eyes? Should we pass a law that states if you do not have children, your marriage is automatically null and void?

Sorry, it is a specious argument


That is also a very good point. Maybe I didn't word myself correctly--or maybe I just was ignorant on such a topic. Again, thanks for bringing it up. I cannot answer that question, but I think you might be able to find something in here:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

This entire thread has been VERY interesting to read and discuss. I have not meant to offend anybody, I just wanted to express my point of view.
Woland
View Profile
Special user
680 Posts

Profile of Woland
Quite right.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » A TOUGH QUESTION TO ANSWER.. (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3..6..9..12..14~15~16~17~18..28..37..46..55..64~65~66 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.22 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL