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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » A TOUGH QUESTION TO ANSWER.. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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acesover
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I believe I have
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Quote:
On 2012-06-10 01:35, mastermindreader wrote:
It's not an either/or proposition, though. What if we are here because a Supreme Being had one big accident?


Be cause sby their very nature Supreme Beings don't have accidents. Now can you answer the question. or just add another clever response that has nothing to do with the original question?
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
DiabolusMagic
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Quote:
On 2012-06-10 08:37, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-10 08:18, DiabolusMagic wrote:
My answer would be neither. We, as magicians, should know better than anyone that everything has an explanation, and it's never supernatural.

We're not discussing "what is," but rather "what you would prefer."

If not 'supreme being' and not 'cosmic happenstance' (aka accident), what 'third option' are you describing when you say, "Neither"?


Basically, just as you can't classify evolution as an "accident" because it follows a distinct and observable pattern you cannot assume that the universe is an accident either because unlike evolution which we can observed over a long period cosmic changes and processes that may explain further the true workings of the cosmos may take place over such incredibly long span of time that they will remain unobserved.

In other words, "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't". We just don't (any may never) know what that method is.
Satanas vobiscum et cum spiritu tuo
Bill Nuvo
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No I would not want there to be a surpreme being.

Because all evidence thus far suggests that the universe has done fine without one and I wouldn't want to muck things up Smile
Bill Hilly
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It's not (just) that I'm too lazy to write so resort to copy and paste, but these three posts are how I feel most of the time:

Quote:
On 2012-06-10 00:11, critter wrote:
Part of me wants there to be a supreme being, so there's someone to be mad at.
Part of me doesn't want there to be a supreme being, so there's no one to be mad at.


Quote:
On 2012-06-10 05:10, stoneunhinged wrote:
Not tough for me to answer. I really, truly wish there was a supreme being, and I truly wish that he or she or it was a benevolent being, and it would give me great comfort to know that I might be reunited with loved ones who have passed away.

That's what I would like to believe.


Quote:
On 2012-06-10 09:54, TomBoleware wrote:
I say, supreme being. IF he/she/it (I call him God) were fair to all. If he kept things simple and the plan included everyone. The plan would need to include men, women, all races, children, the blind, the deaf, the poor, the rich, the uneducated, and all the members of the Café. And if you didn't need a lawyer to understand the contract because it simply read, "just trust me." In exchange for that trust I would be guaranteed peace of mind forever. Now that would be a deal.
Al Angello
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I am a believer, but this is a loaded question.
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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2012-06-10 10:06, DiabolusMagic wrote:...
Basically, just as you can't classify evolution as an "accident" because ...


Basically - evolution occurs as the environment/context changes in ways that are unplanned, unexpected ... so "accident" pretty much sums us the process of "shi* happens and those which happen to be slightly better at getting through it have better chances of passing on their genes to the next generation"

Consider one of the human experiments in selective breeding for tameness in foxes and getting droopy eared and droopy tailed animals in the process - no plan for the ears it just happened.

Any sense of "plan" is a perception on the part of someone looking at a collection of data that has no relevance to those individuals who experienced all that change over time.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
DiabolusMagic
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I never said "plan". I said there was a method and that things happen for a reason. As you just stated, the reason in evolution is adaption. And even your example of "**** happens" is flawed in the context of evolution because environmental changes that lead to adaption are not random or accidental themselves and occur for a reason.
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Steve_Mollett
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Quote:
On 2012-06-10 12:33, DiabolusMagic wrote:
I never said "plan". I said there was a method and that things happen for a reason. As you just stated, the reason in evolution is adaption. And even your example of "**** happens" is flawed in the context of evolution because environmental changes that lead to adaption are not random or accidental themselves and occur for a reason.

That sounds very subjective.
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Steve_Mollett
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[divided post] What do you mean by "a reason"--beyond simple cause and effect?
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2012-06-10 12:33, DiabolusMagic wrote:
... environmental changes that lead to adaption are not random or accidental themselves and occur for a reason.


You appear to be conflating the notion of "reason" as motivation/purpose with "process that we know a little bit about but cannot accurately predict" such as hurricanes and earthquakes and weather.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
R.S.
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I'd have to know more about this "Supreme Being." Does she/he/it interact with us in any way? Does she/he/it have requirements for us (both in the here and the hereafter)?

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Jeff J.
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Quote:
On 2012-06-10 02:36, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-10 02:32, Jeff the Unamazing Hack wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-10 02:16, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-10 02:11, Jeff the Unamazing Hack wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-10 02:03, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-10 01:56, Jeff the Unamazing Hack wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-10 01:51, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-10 01:45, Jeff the Unamazing Hack wrote:
Who said we are here by accident? The fact that we are even disucussing this on a computer is the the result of millions of years of evolution. That's no accident.


Does this post express a belief?


Why are you so intent on saying atheists have a belief? We don't have a belief. Get over it.


Actually, I'll put it in the form of a question. A yes/no question, even. Maybe our difference is entirely semantic.

Let's say someone says, "There is no God." Do you believe that person has made a true statement?


Let's say somone says that there is no Santa. Is that person making a true statement?


I don't blame you for not wanting to answer.


It sounds like you learned indoctrination at the same church as mine. Are you the one knocking on my door on the weekends telling me you have "good news"?


I'm the one asking you a very simple yes/no question. If you can't or won't answer it, you really have no cause for complaining that I'm misconstruing your position.


What exactly is your question?
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-06-10 14:24, Jeff the Unamazing Hack wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-10 02:36, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-10 02:32, Jeff the Unamazing Hack wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-10 02:16, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-10 02:11, Jeff the Unamazing Hack wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-10 02:03, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-10 01:56, Jeff the Unamazing Hack wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-10 01:51, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-10 01:45, Jeff the Unamazing Hack wrote:
Who said we are here by accident? The fact that we are even disucussing this on a computer is the the result of millions of years of evolution. That's no accident.


Does this post express a belief?


Why are you so intent on saying atheists have a belief? We don't have a belief. Get over it.


Actually, I'll put it in the form of a question. A yes/no question, even. Maybe our difference is entirely semantic.

Let's say someone says, "There is no God." Do you believe that person has made a true statement?


Let's say somone says that there is no Santa. Is that person making a true statement?


I don't blame you for not wanting to answer.


It sounds like you learned indoctrination at the same church as mine. Are you the one knocking on my door on the weekends telling me you have "good news"?


I'm the one asking you a very simple yes/no question. If you can't or won't answer it, you really have no cause for complaining that I'm misconstruing your position.


What exactly is your question?


If someone says, "There is no God," do you believe that person has made a true statement?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Jeff J.
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Lobowof, I answered that wuestion with a comment that perhaps didn't satisy you. I think if someone say's there "is no God", they believe that because either believe there is no evidence of a god, or perhthey haven't researched the issue enough. Either way, they are making a true statement as far as what they feel to be true. If you say there IS a god, are YOU making a true statemnet, even though you have no proof?
Jeff J.
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Lobowof, I answered that question with a comment that perhaps didn't satisfy you. I think if someone say's there "is no God", they believe that because they either believe there is no evidence of a god, or perhaps haven't researched the issue enough. Either way, they are making a true statement as far as what they feel to be true. If you say there IS a god, are YOU making a true statemnet, even though you have no proof?
LobowolfXXX
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It's a yes or no question. I'm pretty sure your comment didn't answer it. I don't care why you believe someone else might believe it's true or false, and I don't care about what the person "feels" to be true. A crazy person might feel that the statement that he's Abraham Lincoln is true; that doesn't make it true. It's not a trick question, and it's not a difficult question:

Do you believe that the statement "There is no God" is a true statement?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Jeff J.
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What kind of serious question is answered with a yes or no? How about anwering MY question with a yes or no, and I'll respond in kind.
LobowolfXXX
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Well, for example, your first non-answer was about the Tooth Fairy, so here's a good example. If someone said, "There's no such thing as the Tooth Fairy," and you asked me if I believed that statement is true, I'd say yes.

What kind of serious question is answered with a yes or no? All kinds. Including the very one I asked. I strongly suspect that if you asked any theist here if he/she believes the statement "There is no God" is true, that theist would have no trouble answering "No.". It's not an essay question; you either believe the statement "There is no God" is true, or you don't.

I can see that I posed it in the right thread, though!
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2012-06-10 08:18, DiabolusMagic wrote:
My answer would be neither. We, as magicians, should know better than anyone that everything has an explanation, and it's never supernatural.


That really underlies a problem that many magicians have. They think that because they are magicians they automatically understand science, philosophy, religion and everything else.

Simply knowing how to do magic tricks qualifies you to do those magic tricks. It does not automatically make you an expert in metaphysics, philosophy, science, the paranormal, or anything else for that matter.

"There is no god!"

"How do you know that?"

"Because I know that you can do a color change with a double lift."

Just because something may not be readily explainable by natural means does not automatically mean that there is trickery, fraud or credulity at work. Only pseudo-skeptics think that way.
critter
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One could also mention that there are a variety of sciences. I have a fair working knowledge of my science, but little knowledge of quantum physics.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
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