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Steve_Mollett
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A schizophrenic patient believes he is dead.
The patient's psychiatrist, trying to cure the him of his delusion asks, "Do dead people bleed?"
The patient says, "No, of course not!"
The Psychiatrist pricks the patient's finger and blood oozes.
"Well," asks the doctor, what does that show you?"
"I was WRONG...!" the dumbfounded patient exclaims, staring at the blood as the doctor smiles and nods.
"Dead people DO bleed!" the patient concludes aloud.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
R.S.
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Quote:
On 2012-06-19 20:58, The great Gumbini wrote:
Well I have never met someone that says the Bible is ALL wrong on every point. You see as Christians we believe the Bible to be God's Word and therefore without error. We do however realize that people will believe the Bible is saying something it is not. Most people I have spoken with about the Bible basically pick and choose what to believe is accurate and what is not. It that case those who do not believe in the Bible may have an advantage. Christians do believe that God's Word contains the truth and is without error and we accept that as fact. Not blindly but by study.

Science is good in a lot of ways. I'm glad God invented it too. I have a hard time with some things scientists say. Plus they don't always agree (At least there is a uniform theme running through the Scriptures) on certain things they study. For example a simple thing like "How old is the earth?" Some say billions of years others millions and still some thousands. Only The Jews and Christians break it down to just over 10,000 years. Science has been wrong about quite a bit of things (agent orange) but it is trying. As a matter of fact science has been wrong about things more than the Bible (wrong here is from the non believes point of view). But then again science does not claim to be right all the time. Science is NOT perfect---God is.


Good magic to all,


Eric


Gumbini,

How do you reconcile this...

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/d......ies.html


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
mastermindreader
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I would love to here who the scientists are who believe the earth is only "thousands" of years old.
I can't imagine that there are any. There's nothing in the Bible that supports that conclusion either, so I'm surprised that so many believers think it is so.
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Quote:
On 2012-06-19 21:17, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-19 20:58, The great Gumbini wrote:
Well I have never met someone that says the Bible is ALL wrong on every point. You see as Christians we believe the Bible to be God's Word and therefore without error. We do however realize that people will believe the Bible is saying something it is not. Most people I have spoken with about the Bible basically pick and choose what to believe is accurate and what is not. It that case those who do not believe in the Bible may have an advantage. Christians do believe that God's Word contains the truth and is without error and we accept that as fact. Not blindly but by study.

Science is good in a lot of ways. I'm glad God invented it too. I have a hard time with some things scientists say. Plus they don't always agree (At least there is a uniform theme running through the Scriptures) on certain things they study. For example a simple thing like "How old is the earth?" Some say billions of years others millions and still some thousands. Only The Jews and Christians break it down to just over 10,000 years. Science has been wrong about quite a bit of things (agent orange) but it is trying. As a matter of fact science has been wrong about things more than the Bible (wrong here is from the non believes point of view). But then again science does not claim to be right all the time. Science is NOT perfect---God is.


Good magic to all,


Eric


Gumbini,

How do you reconcile this...

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/d......ies.html


Ron


For starters:
1. JEDP
2. Translation
3. Transliteration
4. What the Bible is vs. what it is not.

Peace and Godspeed.
Peace

"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..."

Scott

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Jeff J.
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Quote:
On 2012-06-19 20:58, The great Gumbini wrote:
Well I have never met someone that says the Bible is ALL wrong on every point. You see as Christians we believe the Bible to be God's Word and therefore without error. We do however realize that people will believe the Bible is saying something it is not. Most people I have spoken with about the Bible basically pick and choose what to believe is accurate and what is not. It that case those who do not believe in the Bible may have an advantage. Christians do believe that God's Word contains the truth and is without error and we accept that as fact. Not blindly but by study.

Science is good in a lot of ways. I'm glad God invented it too. I have a hard time with some things scientists say. Plus they don't always agree (At least there is a uniform theme running through the Scriptures) on certain things they study. For example a simple thing like "How old is the earth?" Some say billions of years others millions and still some thousands. Only The Jews and Christians break it down to just over 10,000 years. Science has been wrong about quite a bit of things (agent orange) but it is trying. As a matter of fact science has been wrong about things more than the Bible (wrong here is from the non believes point of view). But then again science does not claim to be right all the time. Science is NOT perfect---God is.


Good magic to all,


Eric


Eric, you argue that "We do however realize that people will believe the Bible is saying something it is not."

I'm confused. A god who created everything should have the common sense to NOT make his word so confusing that the world is at war because his word is so vague that every person can interpret it in a different way. Was it a sick joke on his part, or did he just not care enough to make it clear what his intentions are/were? You can make the argument of "free will", but if, as the Bible says, god is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient, then he has already determined what we will do before we are born, thus free will can't exist.
The great Gumbini
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Ron,

I'll tell you what pick the one you think is the biggest "error" or contradiction and I'll help clear it up ok? These are very old points that have been reviewed before. Example the light and the darkness and the sun and moon are two different events. Actually if you read the Scriptures you will find the moon was for light at night (Gen 1;16). These do appear (appear) to be contradictions on the surface however you will find upon closer study most go hand in hand to show a complete view. Also realize if these were truly honest contradictions then the arguments you all have made would be valid ones and in fact I for one would never have believed that the Bible was without error or contradictions for this long. One the surface they do appear to contradict but you will find they do not. Some are easier to explain and some will take a little understanding of times and customs but all can be explained. This is nothing new in fact I'm surprised someone hasn't used at least part of this list up until now. I normally have people by now say things like "Well if you believe the Bible has no contradictions what about..." and then one of these will be brought up. You did a very nice job finding a nice list we can all have fun with. So let me know if you have a favorite and we will start with that ok?


Good magic to all,


Eric
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Sure free will can (and does) exist. You can toss a book to someone and most people will catch it. They have the free will NOT to but almost all will. I say almost all yet so far everyone I tossed one to did. I like to whisper to someone what I'm going to do (toss the book) and tell them "watch they will catch it.) and sure enough they do. Now this is a simple explaination and we are more complex however God knows all so He knows the outcome of our decisions. that's how He can prophesy with 100 percent accuracy because He knows. He has made His Word clear in fact it is so clear people try to complicate it and that is where you can have wars etc. Free will we do have and we will answer one way or the other on how we use it.


Good magic to all,


Eric
mastermindreader
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What day of the week was the last supper?

How did Judas die?

For starters.
Jeff J.
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Quote:
On 2012-06-19 22:12, The great Gumbini wrote:
Sure free will can (and does) exist. You can toss a book to someone and most people will catch it. They have the free will NOT to but almost all will. I say almost all yet so far everyone I tossed one to did. I like to whisper to someone what I'm going to do (toss the book) and tell them "watch they will catch it.) and sure enough they do. Now this is a simple explaination and we are more complex however God knows all so He knows the outcome of our decisions. that's how He can prophesy with 100 percent accuracy because He knows. He has made His Word clear in fact it is so clear people try to complicate it and that is where you can have wars etc. Free will we do have and we will answer one way or the other on how we use it.


Good magic to all,


Eric


If free will exists, then what are my options? God supposedly knows how many hairs are on my head and has everything all planned out for me (the "all knowing part). So do I try to tell god that I don't care that he has evertyhing all planned out, I'm just going to try and screw him over and fight it? First of all, a god would be more powerful than to let me override his plan, but even if I tried, I imagine he'd get him pretty mad and I would end up in hell anyway. You can't have it both ways. If god created me and knows exactly what I'm going to do in life, then I'm a goner from the start, because he knew I was going to be a non-believer. A god that created me just so I would burn in hell for eternity is not a god I consider moral or worthy of my respect.
acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-06-19 22:23, mastermindreader wrote:
What day of the week was the last supper?

How did Judas die?

For starters.


You will find what you are looking for here: http://www.tektonics.org/gk/judasdeath.html
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-06-19 21:34, mastermindreader wrote:
I would love to here who the scientists are who believe the earth is only "thousands" of years old.
I can't imagine that there are any. There's nothing in the Bible that supports that conclusion either, so I'm surprised that so many believers think it is so.


No one said they were smart scientists. Smile
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kambiz
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Really, the arguments here are laughable considering no-one on this thread has read any of the Bahai Writings which explains clearly and rationally all the challenges being laid down by theists and atheists alike in this thread....

......but you guys keep going ahead....

This is fun!! Smile

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
mastermindreader
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Sorry you feel my arguments are laughable.
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Quote:
On 2012-06-19 23:19, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-19 22:23, mastermindreader wrote:
What day of the week was the last supper?

How did Judas die?

For starters.


You will find what you are looking for here: http://www.tektonics.org/gk/judasdeath.html


Well that site certainly tries to harmonize the conflicting accounts of Matthew and Acts. Sadly, IMO it fails utterly and doesn't really come to any conclusion beyond tentative speculation.

The plain language of the accounts differ and are irreconcilable.

So what day was the Last Supper?
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As Rodney once said, Why can't we all just get along?.

Come on boys and girls believe what you want and let everyone else alone. Does anyone see a problem with that?

No one here is going to convince one to change their religious beliefs nor are they going to change the mind of an atheist. So I say as that smarter than we realize great card player often says, "believe what you want". And as I say. Please don't try and force your beliefs on me. I am quite content with my religious beliefs and my relationsip with God.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
The great Gumbini
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Bob,

That very wonderful tool Acesover mentioned above is HIGHLY recommended by myself to not only you but everyone who has questions on the Scriptures. Apologetics is a wonderful study and I recommend it to show the very earnest hard work people put in to verify the accuracy of the Scriptures. I read books by Josh McDowell that were very good as well. This is the deep study that normally reduces the questions about the Scriptures and why I said there are answers and if there were not most studied believers would have jumped ship if we thought it was not real. But through studies like this material offers you will get answers.

Acesover I thank you for this. I have Bookmarked it and will use it.


Good magic to all,


Eric
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Quote:
On 2012-06-19 23:50, mastermindreader wrote:
Sorry you feel my arguments are laughable.



Sorry, Bob, if anyone is "exempt" from my statement, you would be the only one Smile

I find the majority of your posts very well informed, and based on thorough study and for that I will respect you more than I respect your mentalism (and believe me I respect your contributions to mentalism)

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
Jeff J.
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Quote:
On 2012-06-20 00:03, acesover wrote:
As Rodney once said, Why can't we all just get along?.

Come on boys and girls believe what you want and let everyone else alone. Does anyone see a problem with that?

No one here is going to convince one to change their religious beliefs nor are they going to change the mind of an atheist. So I say as that smarter than we realize great card player often says, "believe what you want". And as I say. Please don't try and force your beliefs on me. I am quite content with my religious beliefs and my relationsip with God.


Wouldn't that be a nice thing? If only religious folks just worshipped their faith in their own way and not make laws that impose their beliefs on everyone, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I understand that most people worship in their own way without dragging unwilling people into their beliefs, but if you want "everyone to get along", I suggest you contact your politicians and tell them to practice their faith without forcing it on the minority who don't share their beliefs. I'm not evem talking about people who knock on my door in the morning to tell me I have "good news". I'm talking about those who decide to set science back decades because thier faith tells them that stem cells that would otherwise be discarded are better off going in the trash than help people who are actually living improve their quality of life.

We won't complain about your beliefs if you don't shove it down the throats of those who choose to believe otherwise. I don't knock on people doors on a Saturday morning to tell them there's no good news.
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Quote:
On 2012-06-20 00:15, kambiz wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-19 23:50, mastermindreader wrote:
Sorry you feel my arguments are laughable.



Sorry, Bob, if anyone is "exempt" from my statement, you would be the only one Smile

I find the majority of your posts very well informed, and based on thorough study and for that I will respect you more than I respect your mentalism (and believe me I respect your contributions to mentalism)

Kam


I was just busting you Kam! Smile
kambiz
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I suspected so Smile

I will contend however, that all the points being raised by the atheists as to why the Christian Faith is this and that, are answered conclusively in the Baha'i Writings.

All the discrepancies you see in the Bible, are fully explained in the Baha'i Writings. All the supposed "cruelty" exhibited by this All-Knowing All-Loving God in the Old and New Testaments, are fully explained using rational theological arguments, in the Baha'i Writings...

...but as I say, seeing all this to and fro-ing argument is not to seek the truth by anyone, because when one is making it up as one goes along with one's own explanations is funny to watch, since most of it is very irrational thinking...

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
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