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The great Gumbini
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Kam,

I would like to hear your thoughts on the post I wrote to you on page 25 of this thread. There is also a book called Fast Facts On Islam by Ankerberg and Weldon I highly recommend for people to read. Kam let me know your thoughts.


Good magic to all,


Eric
LobowolfXXX
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I think the reason a leprechaun thread wouldn't go very far is that (other then having a laugh), there'd be a marked shortage of people on the pro-leprechaun side. In God discussions (and in USA-heavy settings, particulary Jesus discussions), a great many people are very passionate on both sides.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2012-06-23 13:34, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I think the reason a leprechaun thread wouldn't go very far is that (other then having a laugh), there'd be a marked shortage of people on the pro-leprechaun side. In God discussions (and in USA-heavy settings, particulary Jesus discussions), a great many people are very passionate on both sides.


I don't know about that Lobo. The pro-leprechaun folks on my leprechaun thread seem to outnumber the non-believers. And majority rule has to count for something. (Stoney denied their existence at first, but I was quickly able to change his mind with a bit of proselytizing and some convincing proof.) Smile
R.S.
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Quote:
On 2012-06-23 13:24, The great Gumbini wrote:
Ron,

I was born Jewish. After studying the Scriptures it was clear Jesus is the Messiah and I asked Him into my heart. If I were born anywhere else I believe I would still know that God is real and Jesus is His Son. In other words because God loves me so much He would make Himself known to me wherever HE chose for me to be born.

As far as leprechauns go---I don't know if they exist or not. However I do believe if you started a thread on the existence of leprechauns it would not last as long as this. And why is that by the way? Nothing quite peeks the interest like God huh?


Good magic to all,


Eric


Check out this link...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religions_by_country

It lists 6 categories of religious affiliation by country. Do you notice anything about it? In a "normal" distribution among 6 categories to "choose" from, you would expect roughly an equal number of people to choose each category. But that's not the case, is it? Most of the countries listed claim 80% - 100% affiliation under ONE category! Why do you suppose the vast majority of those born in Algeria will grow up to be Muslims? And the vast majority of those born in Thailand will grow up to be Buddhists? It's safe to say that most people do not "choose" their religion. They are indoctrinated in it from a young age. And when they grow up, they seek to justify their pre-held notions and automatically reject "foreign" religions.

You may be correct about the popularity of a Leprechaun thread. Because here have not been any wars in the name of Leprechauns. Nor have there been any suicide bombings in the name of Leprechauns. Nor do you hear of parents refusing medical treatment for their child because Leprechauns will heal them. Nor does anyone try to force Leprechaun mythology into the science class. Nor does anyone knock on doors to spread the "good news" about Leprechauns.


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
LobowolfXXX
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Why is it safe to say that it's indoctrination? Perhaps religious preference is a genetic characteristic that is shared between people of common ancestry.

My recollection is that studies of identical twins separated at birth and raised separately showed that twins were more likely to share religious belief with their genetic twin than with their adoptive siblings.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
ClintonMagus
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One reason that some countries are heavily "weighted" to a particular religion is that it is illegal in those countries to believe any other way.

As for the comparison between believing in God to believing in leprechauns, it is a perfect example of the intolerance sown to believers by non-believers.
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
R.S.
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Quote:
On 2012-06-23 16:58, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Why is it safe to say that it's indoctrination? Perhaps religious preference is a genetic characteristic that is shared between people of common ancestry.

My recollection is that studies of identical twins separated at birth and raised separately showed that twins were more likely to share religious belief with their genetic twin than with their adoptive siblings.


That would be even MORE reason to conclude that "choice" is not a factor in one's religious beliefs. One simply inherits the Muslim gene, or the Hindu gene. But imo, the biggest factor is a culture's inculcation of their young in their particular brand of religion. Take a newborn baby born in Iraq and have him raised in this country by devout Christians and chances are he'll grow up being a Christian. And likewise, a newborn here raised in Iraq will most likely be a Muslim.


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2012-06-23 16:58, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Why is it safe to say that it's indoctrination? Perhaps religious preference is a genetic characteristic that is shared between people of common ancestry.

My recollection is that studies of identical twins separated at birth and raised separately showed that twins were more likely to share religious belief with their genetic twin than with their adoptive siblings.


Twins raised in our culture will also likely drink cola. Does that mean drinking cola is a genetic characteristic?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2012-06-23 17:50, R.S. wrote:
...reason to conclude that "choice" is not a factor in one's religious beliefs....


Conformity is a choice. A utilitarian choice.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jonathan Townsend
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On 2012-06-23 17:45, ClintonMagus wrote:...comparison between believing in God to believing in leprechauns, it is a perfect example of the intolerance sown to believers by non-believers.

Are you suggesting "God" is not a Leprechaun?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
mastermindreader
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On 2012-06-23 16:45, R.S. wrote:

Because here have not been any wars in the name of Leprechauns. Nor have there been any suicide bombings in the name of Leprechauns. Nor do you hear of parents refusing medical treatment for their child because Leprechauns will heal them. Nor does anyone try to force Leprechaun mythology into the science class. Nor does anyone knock on doors to spread the "good news" about Leprechauns.


Ron


Except for the "mythology" crack about the little people, I agree with you.

I am, however, seriously considering knocking on doors to spread the word about them. And I bet that I'll get friendlier responses and more smiles than the Jehovah's Witnesses do. Besides, I can show some card tricks, too! Smile

:kewl:
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-06-23 17:55, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-23 16:58, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Why is it safe to say that it's indoctrination? Perhaps religious preference is a genetic characteristic that is shared between people of common ancestry.

My recollection is that studies of identical twins separated at birth and raised separately showed that twins were more likely to share religious belief with their genetic twin than with their adoptive siblings.


Twins raised in our culture will also likely drink cola. Does that mean drinking cola is a genetic characteristic?


Nope, it sure doesn't.

On a somewhat more relevant note, if a child is measurably more likely to share a cola-drinking propensity with a twin he has never met than with his own adoptive siblings, who were raised by the same parents as he was, that is evidence, albeit not proof, that drinking cola IS a genetic characteristic.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
R.S.
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Quote:
On 2012-06-23 17:45, ClintonMagus wrote:
One reason that some countries are heavily "weighted" to a particular religion is that it is illegal in those countries to believe any other way.

As for the comparison between believing in God to believing in leprechauns, it is a perfect example of the intolerance sown to believers by non-believers.



Those countries would be in the minority.

"As for the comparison between believing in God to believing in leprechauns, it is a perfect example of the intolerance sown to believers by non-believers."

How so? And since when does asking simple questions constitute intolerance? Last I checked all the believers here are indeed tolerated - in fact, they are quite vociferous and forceful in their opinions. Nobody is calling for them to be banned from this discussion. I, for one, welcome the back and forth and sharing of ideas. And I don't know what to say about anyone who may be so fragile as to have their feelings hurt over words typed (in a discussion of belief no less) by complete strangers who you will, in all likelihood, never see.


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
R.S.
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On 2012-06-23 18:08, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-23 16:45, R.S. wrote:

Because here have not been any wars in the name of Leprechauns. Nor have there been any suicide bombings in the name of Leprechauns. Nor do you hear of parents refusing medical treatment for their child because Leprechauns will heal them. Nor does anyone try to force Leprechaun mythology into the science class. Nor does anyone knock on doors to spread the "good news" about Leprechauns.


Ron


Except for the "mythology" crack about the little people, I agree with you.

I am, however, seriously considering knocking on doors to spread the word about them. And I bet that I'll get friendlier responses and more smiles than the Jehovah's Witnesses do. Besides, I can show some card tricks, too! Smile

:kewl:


A better word would have been belief.

I like your idea! You could call you could call yourself a "Chaun Man" (get it? con-man) Smile

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
The great Gumbini
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The sins of the father are passed down to the children till the third and fourth generations. That is biblical and can easily explain why there is this wanting to keep with our parents religion. This is why Jesus said families would be divided because of Him. Again He was able to see these things happening. The answers are right there in front of you in the Bible. It really is an awesome book.


Good magic to all,


Eric
mastermindreader
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On 2012-06-23 18:50, R.S. wrote:


I like your idea! You could call you could call yourself a "Chaun Man" (get it? con-man) Smile

Ron


That's the ticket!
acesover
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On 2012-06-23 11:45, mastermindreader wrote:
Acesover-

You stated that the majority of people in the world are Christians. That is simply not so. While Christianity is the largest single religion, it's followers comprise only 31%-35% of all religions in the world. In other words, fully TWO-THIRDS of the world's population are NOT Christians. Here are the demographics so that you can see them for yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations

But, again, this is really pointless, because majority opinions are meaningless when it comes to discussing rights, philosophies, etc. The fact that more people believe in something has no bearing on whether or not their belief is "true."

Good thoughts,

Bob


You are right on both points. I should have said tht the majority of people believe in God.

Also you are correct in that just because most people believe in something does not make it so, but it makes for a good arguement that would have been used aganist believers of a Supreme Being or God if in some cases you wish to call Him that.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
acesover
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On 2012-06-23 12:47, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-23 09:14, acesover wrote:
Obviously the majority of people in this world have been fooled according to you as I believe the majority of people in this world are christians. I guess you atheists are just smarter than most everyone else. Smile Can't fool you guys first there was nothing then there was something then here we are Bang. And you are talking about a ball under a cup. Jeeeez.

BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT


Aces,

EVERYBODY in the world has been deceived by their own senses/perceptions/memory at one time or another. Claiming 100% certainty about anything is probably not a good idea. (and I'm 99.9999% certain about that statement) Smile

Yes, I AM talking about a ball under a cup! It either exists or it does not, right? Some wholeheartedly believe it does while some may not. But when the cup is lifted and the truth is revealed, we see that somebody was wrong. Somebody who "knew for sure" that they were correct in their belief.

No thanks, I will NOT "believe what I want." I will instead accept that which is backed by sound evidence, reason, and logic. And I will, if necessary, gladly dismiss that which I have previously accepted in the face of new, more convincing evidence for something else. That should be the correct approach, no?


Ron


OK then. Having said what you said above. Exactly what proof would you need to believe in God? What sort of sound evidence, reason and logic would make yo ubelieve in God? You did saay yoiu would except that which is back by those atributes? So again just asking?
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
kambiz
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Quote:
On 2012-06-23 13:27, The great Gumbini wrote:
Kam,

I would like to hear your thoughts on the post I wrote to you on page 25 of this thread. There is also a book called Fast Facts On Islam by Ankerberg and Weldon I highly recommend for people to read. Kam let me know your thoughts.


Good magic to all,


Eric


Hi Eric, to be absolutely honest, it is a matter of interpretive opinion when one considers what exactly is Muhammad's position on who Jesus was. It is also a matter of interpretive opinion on what any Christians position is on who Jesus was. The reality is that there are several excerpts in the Quran that praise Jesus to the highest hills, so is Muhammad "really" AGAINST Jesus?

It's a matter of opinion.

All I know is this, that as a previous Jew who somehow recognized Jesus as the Messiah by recognizing the symbolic interpretation of the OT prophecies that described His coming, you have failed to answer my questions on page 22 of this thread.

In fact, none of the Christians in this thread have answered my questions on page 22 of this thread Smile

Good magic and good hugs Smile
Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
LobowolfXXX
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Take my response with a grain of salt, but as a non-Christian with Christian friends, I know that some of them would take the penultimate Bible verse to suggest that God hasn't changed the rules again:

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book"
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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