The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » A TOUGH QUESTION TO ANSWER.. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3..11..19..27..35..43~44~45~46~47..51..54..57..60..63..64~65~66 [Next]
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1192 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 22:38, kambiz wrote:
Dreadnought, when you say "acceptance of Jesus Christ", what is the rationale behind that? I respect your thoughts here Smile

Kam


John 14:6?!
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dreadnought
View Profile
Special user
Athens, Georgia
836 Posts

Profile of Dreadnought
Yep. And likewise, no one comes to Jesus unless the Father draws Him. (John 6:44)

Peace and Godspeed
Peace

"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..."

Scott

Would you do anything for the person you love?
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1192 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 22:38, kambiz wrote:
Dreadnought, when you say "acceptance of Jesus Christ", what is the rationale behind that? I respect your thoughts here Smile

Kam


What's the rationale for accepting Christianity as a true religion and disputing it?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
critter
View Profile
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2551 Posts

Profile of critter
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 22:59, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 22:43, critter wrote:
I always thought the deal with the New Testament was that God came down to Earth and lived as a human and thought: "This kind of sucks. Maybe I should cut people a little slack."


Well by that statement it shows you thought wrong. Of course...believe what you want. Especially if it makes you feel better and all fuzzy inside. Smile


Relax, it was a joke.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
kambiz
View Profile
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1129 Posts

Profile of kambiz
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 23:18, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 22:38, kambiz wrote:
Dreadnought, when you say "acceptance of Jesus Christ", what is the rationale behind that? I respect your thoughts here Smile

Kam


What's the rationale for accepting Christianity as a true religion and disputing it?



No-one is disputing Lobo Smile I would prefer to call it an exploration. My questions were respectfully put I hope, and did not cause offense...

My rationale for exploring this idea is simply because there have been 2 major global religions borne out of the seed of Abraham since Jesus's revelation. Both have Authors who claim absolute divinity, one of which claims to be the Voice of the Burning Bush and Return of Jesus Christ. So I think, when someone claims that accepting Jesus is the only way to heaven, when 2 other Divine Teachers have claimed the same thing ...."surely"......that warrants some questions to be asked, without idle disputation, but friendly exploration....

I value everyones thoughts...

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
kambiz
View Profile
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1129 Posts

Profile of kambiz
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 23:09, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 22:38, kambiz wrote:
Dreadnought, when you say "acceptance of Jesus Christ", what is the rationale behind that? I respect your thoughts here Smile

Kam


John 14:6?!



Hebrews 1:1
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son (Jesus)."

Can anyone doubt that Abraham, Moses and all the other Hebrew Prophets weren't also from God... that they too "at sundry times and in divers manners" didn't also lead people to God and that they too were also part of this "way" of the Covenant?


There are other quotes too from more ancient religions, that express the true pathway being through their Authors.

The quotes from the Quran and the Bahai Writings are similarly explicit. I would genuinely appreciate all your thoughts ....

Also , what is the Christian view on John 14:28 "my Father is greater than I" ?

Thanks again guys Smile

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1192 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
My (limited) understanding is that while Jesus wasn't the only prophet in the Bible, he was the only one described as being the unique gateway to heaven. That fact that they were all "equal" in that they revealed the word of God doesn't make them "equal" in general.

What is the Baha'i interpretation of "no one can come to the Father except through me"?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
kambiz
View Profile
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1129 Posts

Profile of kambiz
Hi Lobo....I agree with you in terms of "degrees" of Revelation. According to Baha'i teachings, each Manifestation of God has been assigned specific tasks, and the impact of their Message will manifest differences. There can be no doubt that Jesus's Message was indeed highly potent.

Hopefully, as we explore these concepts together, and so far so good in terms of amicability, and I will ensure I play my part to maintain respect in tone (although my thoughts may challenge some, but my tone will always remain non-personal and respectful), then we will hopefully get to unfold the full Baha'i perspective.

I hope you can forgive me for affording the respect to Dreadnought, Eric, acesover and Tom, should he wish to contribute, to provide their understandings first Smile

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
R.S.
View Profile
Regular user
CT one day I'll have
173 Posts

Profile of R.S.
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 19:19, TomBoleware wrote:
Why won't God heal amputees? I have no idea.
Maybe he looks over them in another way. I don't know.


Why you need God?

Ron you probably have fire insurance on your house.
Yet you don't really believe it's going to burn down. Do you?
But you just never know about the future. Do you?
Kind of sad to pay those premiums all your life, just in case.

Nothing else, I guess God would be good insurance if all the others are right. Smile


Tom


Or maybe God won't heal amputees because he doesn't exist. Seems kind of strange that a loving God would (in response to prayer, as some claim) heal cancers, diabetes, allergies, heart ailments, etc., but he refuses to regrow even so much as a thumb every once in a great while.

Look up "Pascal's wager."

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
R.S.
View Profile
Regular user
CT one day I'll have
173 Posts

Profile of R.S.
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 19:24, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 17:57, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 17:26, acesover wrote:
You have nailed it. Research, knowledge! The magic words, research and knowledge. There is absoutely nothing wrong with research and what comes from it, that being knowledge. However research which produced knowledge of the Big Bang Theory is at once used to say...There we found it, there is no God there is no Supreme Being it all started with the Big Bang deal. Until you ask yourself what started? Are we sure about the Big BAng Theory? If so Does it eliminate God? The answer to both of these questions is NO.

Man is not satisfied with his discoveries which were always there, because God allowed them. He must say now I have found the secret of the universe. I am on equal footing with this so called God who now I know does not exist becasue I found out the truth. We are here because of one big accident. There is no God. I am God, Man is God, Science is God. Besides even if there is God I am as smart as He is now because I know all. I am the smartest thing in the universe and know all the answers. Before man gets carried away with his own self importance let me just say, wrong, wrong, wrong. Believe what you want.

If it makes you happy that there is no God or if you believe there is God and you are as all knowing as he is than be happy and believe what you want. If you thnk man and science can find the answers to the creation then fine, believe it. Believe what you want. Let me say this to all you atheists. There is nothng that can convience you that there is a God. Let me further add there is nothing that you can say that will convience me that there is not God. Now are we both closed minded or is it just ones point of view that makes the other closed minded?

Believe what you want. Who cares? Certainly not all those who believe in God. They would like you to believe in God, but they don't have a stake in it if you don't. With the exception of a few missionaries that want to just bang their head aganist a wall and try and convience you, most people just don't care what you believe. However I just want to add this. It seems to upset atheists that we believe in God. I don't know why it bothers them. They are like antimissionaries trying to convience you that there is no God. Let it go.

So in answering your question I am just saying there is no line to be drawn to research and advancement. But if you think that further researach is going to provide you with answers that proves there is no God you are on a hopless quest.


It amazes me that you have participated in all these threads, yet you still post such an innacurate and misleading representation of science, the BB theory, and atheists.

Ron


OK here is an explanation of The Big Bang Theory. The firstr paragraph anyway.

You are here: Science >> Big Bang Theory

Big Bang Theory - The Premise
The Big Bang theory is an effort to explain what happened at the very beginning of our universe. Discoveries in astronomy and physics have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that our universe did in fact have a beginning. Prior to that moment there was nothing; during and after that moment there was something: our universe. The big bang theory is an effort to explain what happened during and after that moment.

OK so much for that, First there was nothign then there was something. I nailed that.

Most scietists that delve into the creation of the universe discount the Supreme Being as a possible solution. I nailed tht

Atheists. Don't believe in God. I nailed that.

Which of the above statements are the ones I am misrepresenting according to you?


[Facepalm]

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
R.S.
View Profile
Regular user
CT one day I'll have
173 Posts

Profile of R.S.
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 22:29, Dreadnought wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 10:40, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 10:00, Dreadnought wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-23 22:06, R.S. wrote:

An omiscient and omnipotent God would know what it would take to convince me. If he wants to leave convincing evidence (convincing to me), or reveal himself to me in some way, it would easily be in his power to do so.

But let me ask you, what would it take for YOU to believe in, say, Ganesha?

Ron


It depends on what definition of omniscient and omnipotent you are using. Theologically, He has given you everything you need. In John's last Supper Discourse (Chapter 15) and the Matthew and Mark account of the Last Supper, Jesus (God) knows that there will be those who do not believe. In John 15, He prays for His disciples and those that come after them and believe, He doesn't pray for everyone, He doesn't pray for the unbelieving, because He knows no amount of evidence will ever change their mind.

Peace and Godspeed.


I'm using the commonly accepted definitions; - all knowing. Omnipotent - all powerful. What other definitions are there?

So under those definitions, it would be easy for him to convince me. I would venture to say that it is a weak God indeed who cannot even convince someone of his existence.

Besides, you indicated in another thread that it is possible for lifelong atheists to make it to Heaven. So belief is not all important apparently. Care to elaborate on how exactly atheists can find themselves in Heaven after they die?


Ron


Since we are talking theology the theological definitions are the ones. If we were talking biology then we go with any biological definition that may exist.

God is all powerful, but in in so far as it is within His nature. He cannot contradict Himself. His omniscience allows His to know past, presence and future. Since, He dwells in eternity, and thus all things are open to Him. He knows all that is possible.

Again, He knows that some people will not believe and will be lost. But He likewise knows that a person can change and thus provides the means for the change. It is up to the person to accept and believe. He has given you everything you need to believe, the rest is up to you.

And yes, I did say it was possible for an atheist to get into Heaven. BUT I also said that is CONDITIONAL as it depends on the state of the person's soul and their human disposition and then they are commended, as is everyone, to the mercy of God, which trumps judgment. The conditions are free from mortal sin and the disposition to willing try not to sin and the acceptance of Jesus Christ, which can come even after death, how long after death, no one knows. But we know that Hell is eternal separation from God, a state freely chosen by the individual not imposed by God (He's just giving the person what they want).

Peace and Godspeed.


Obviously, he HASN'T given everything one needs to believe, because many people do not believe. ET fanatics may also claim that you have been given everything you need to believe in aliens, the rest is up to you. Anyway, if it is SO important to a God that we believe in him, then why doesn't he just convince everybody? He knows what it would take. But obviously, he allows for disbelief.

So, atheists can go to Heaven if God grants a "pardon" so to speak? What is the required "state of soul" and "human disposition"? And why should anything "trump" judgement? Shouldn't the rules be consistent?

"But we know that Hell is eternal separation from God, a state freely chosen by the individual not imposed by God (He's just giving the person what they want)."

As far as this refers to atheists, this is silly, and you know it. Again, someone who does not believe that a thing even exists cannot possibly want/choose that something.


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 23:36, critter wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 22:59, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 22:43, critter wrote:
I always thought the deal with the New Testament was that God came down to Earth and lived as a human and thought: "This kind of sucks. Maybe I should cut people a little slack."


Well by that statement it shows you thought wrong. Of course...believe what you want. Especially if it makes you feel better and all fuzzy inside. Smile


Relax, it was a joke.


I am relaxed. Didn't you see the Happy Face? Smile
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Pakar Ilusi
View Profile
Inner circle
5715 Posts

Profile of Pakar Ilusi
Quote:
On 2012-06-22 13:33, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-20 19:36, kambiz wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-20 15:51, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Kam, you do know that the Muslim Clerics (Sunni and Syiah) regard your Bahai Faith as Apostasy right?

That Bahaullah's claims to Prophethood (or whatever) is regarded as false right?

If you still take from the teachings of Islam (the Quran and Hadith), what do you say to the one billion Muslim Ummah who say you of the Bahai Faith are apostates?


You know what Pakar, I say good luck to them. Such has been the radiance and love of those blessed persecuted Baha'is in Iran, that they have transformed those Muslims who know them, to such an extent that I'm convinced that when a regime change does occurr we will see a mass explosion in Bahai community membership in that country. We are seeing it with Muslims who have left Iran and can choose their religion freely and we are seeing it in the production of recent movies (Iranian Taboo) by Muslims on the sad plight of the persecuted Baha'is .....

The reality is this. Nowhere does it say in the Quran that the Bahai Faith will arise in the future and all Muslims should kill the Baha'is. Nowhere does Muhammad Himself say anything of the sort. Muhammads mission was very specific, to remove idol worship from that region and to create a framework for nation building. He said He was the final prophet, and called all the Divine Teachers before him prophets too. What does a prophet do? Amongst other things He prophesies. Baha'u'llah says He is the fulfillment of ALL prophecies from every Divine Teacher since the beginning of Abrahamic religious commencement.


Kam


"Baha'u'llah says He is the fulfillment of ALL prophecies from every Divine Teacher since the beginning of Abrahamic religious commencement."

MUSLIMS CLEARLY DENOUNCE THIS STATEMENT. Muhammad is THE fulfillment of ALL prophecies from every Divine Teacher TO THEM.

How do you reconcile this?

A billion Muslims follow the Quran and Hadith but adamantly condemn the Bahai Faith.

Who goes to Paradise(Jannah) and who goes to Hell(Nar)? One side MUST GO TO HELL as is dictated in the Quran and Hadith, that YOU hold on to.


Sorry, have you answered this Kam?
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
kambiz
View Profile
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1129 Posts

Profile of kambiz
Quote:
On 2012-06-25 09:41, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-22 13:33, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-20 19:36, kambiz wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-20 15:51, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Kam, you do know that the Muslim Clerics (Sunni and Syiah) regard your Bahai Faith as Apostasy right?

That Bahaullah's claims to Prophethood (or whatever) is regarded as false right?

If you still take from the teachings of Islam (the Quran and Hadith), what do you say to the one billion Muslim Ummah who say you of the Bahai Faith are apostates?


You know what Pakar, I say good luck to them. Such has been the radiance and love of those blessed persecuted Baha'is in Iran, that they have transformed those Muslims who know them, to such an extent that I'm convinced that when a regime change does occurr we will see a mass explosion in Bahai community membership in that country. We are seeing it with Muslims who have left Iran and can choose their religion freely and we are seeing it in the production of recent movies (Iranian Taboo) by Muslims on the sad plight of the persecuted Baha'is .....

The reality is this. Nowhere does it say in the Quran that the Bahai Faith will arise in the future and all Muslims should kill the Baha'is. Nowhere does Muhammad Himself say anything of the sort. Muhammads mission was very specific, to remove idol worship from that region and to create a framework for nation building. He said He was the final prophet, and called all the Divine Teachers before him prophets too. What does a prophet do? Amongst other things He prophesies. Baha'u'llah says He is the fulfillment of ALL prophecies from every Divine Teacher since the beginning of Abrahamic religious commencement.


Kam


"Baha'u'llah says He is the fulfillment of ALL prophecies from every Divine Teacher since the beginning of Abrahamic religious commencement."

MUSLIMS CLEARLY DENOUNCE THIS STATEMENT. Muhammad is THE fulfillment of ALL prophecies from every Divine Teacher TO THEM.

How do you reconcile this?

A billion Muslims follow the Quran and Hadith but adamantly condemn the Bahai Faith.

Who goes to Paradise(Jannah) and who goes to Hell(Nar)? One side MUST GO TO HELL as is dictated in the Quran and Hadith, that YOU hold on to.


Sorry, have you answered this Kam?


My sincere apologies Pakar....there have been a lot of questions to answer, and my shortcomings are many Smile

In Islam, it is said that Muhammad fulfilled many prophecies, that is correct. But no Muslim claims that Muhammad was the return of Jesus in the glory of the Father, Baha'u'llah does. Muhammad does not claim to be the Buddhist Maitreya, Baha'u'llah does, Muhammad does not claim to be the Shah Bahram, Baha'u'llah does. I could go on and on....

The difference is that Baha'u'llah's message embraces the coming of age of humanity, and resultingly, His message is detailed, thoroughly explained, systematic, rational and very difficult to express in horrific ways, like we have seen throughout history from religious zealots.

You say one side goes to heaven, one side goes to hell. Can you clarify any passages in the Quran that relate to this concept? Smile

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
Pakar Ilusi
View Profile
Inner circle
5715 Posts

Profile of Pakar Ilusi
Quote:
On 2012-06-25 09:59, kambiz wrote:

In Islam, it is said that Muhammad fulfilled many prophecies, that is correct. But no Muslim claims that Muhammad was the return of Jesus in the glory of the Father, Baha'u'llah does. Muhammad does not claim to be the Buddhist Maitreya, Baha'u'llah does, Muhammad does not claim to be the Shah Bahram, Baha'u'llah does. I could go on and on....

You say one side goes to heaven, one side goes to hell. Can you clarify any passages in the Quran that relate to this concept? Smile

Kam


If you say that of Baha'u'llah, then you are not of the Muslim Faith. Which is fine by me actually... However, Muhammad would readily denounce Baha'u'llah, as did the scholars of the time.

To the next question, where in the Quran? Really? That is why it was (supposedly) sent down. Those who believe in Allah and His Messenger, Muhammad, go to Heaven. Those who don't, go to Hell.

Ask ANY Muslim Scholar if Bahai is accepted by followers of Muhammad?
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
kambiz
View Profile
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1129 Posts

Profile of kambiz
Pakar, the same was said when Jesus was revealing His message. Those who believe Him go to heaven, those who do not go to hell.

Baha'u'llah has clarified all of this perceived "exclusivity"

Baha'u'llah says the reason the Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Jesus, Muhammad and Baha'u'llah claimed exclusivity is purely because They were Divine Teachers providing guidance that was adapted to human conduct to reflect the evolutionary advances of humanity at the time. Follow the guidance given by Moses during His age, then you go to heaven, follow the guidance of Jesus during His age and times, then you go to heaven.....during Jesus's time, following Moses' teachings was no longer enough to go to heaven......and so it is with Muhammad and Baha'u'llah.

Does that make sense? Smile

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
kambiz
View Profile
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1129 Posts

Profile of kambiz
Ps I am NOT of the Muslim Faith, I am a Bahai Smile

Baha'is are as different from Muslims, as Christians are from Jews Smile

I love all the Divine Teachers equally however....They all served a critical purpose in humanity's development

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
Pakar Ilusi
View Profile
Inner circle
5715 Posts

Profile of Pakar Ilusi
Quote:
On 2012-06-25 10:16, kambiz wrote:
Ps I am NOT of the Muslim Faith, I am a Bahai Smile

Baha'is are as different from Muslims, as Christians are from Jews Smile

I love all the Divine Teachers equally however....They all served a critical purpose in humanity's development

Kam


That there is all I needed to know. Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Dreadnought
View Profile
Special user
Athens, Georgia
836 Posts

Profile of Dreadnought
Quote:
On 2012-06-25 06:35, R.S. wrote:

Obviously, he HASN'T given everything one needs to believe, because many people do not believe. ET fanatics may also claim that you have been given everything you need to believe in aliens, the rest is up to you. Anyway, if it is SO important to a God that we believe in him, then why doesn't he just convince everybody? He knows what it would take. But obviously, he allows for disbelief.

So, atheists can go to Heaven if God grants a "pardon" so to speak? What is the required "state of soul" and "human disposition"? And why should anything "trump" judgement? Shouldn't the rules be consistent?

"But we know that Hell is eternal separation from God, a state freely chosen by the individual not imposed by God (He's just giving the person what they want)."

As far as this refers to atheists, this is silly, and you know it. Again, someone who does not believe that a thing even exists cannot possibly want/choose that something.


Ron


1. Yes, He has given you everything, AGAIN.... it is up to you.
Quote:
But obviously, he allows for disbelief.
BINGO!!!! It's called freewill, that thing that Atheists refuse to acknowledge but want to insist on. and AGAIN I said that Sacred Scripture shows that God knows there will people who will not believe no matter what proof is provided.

AGAINthe required state of the soul is that it is free from mortal sin and the disposition of the person is to willingly try not to sin again.

Why should anything trump judgment? Because God is all merciful. "For the judgment is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment." [James 2:13]

Which is based on:
"Blessed are the merciful,for they will be shown mercy" [Matthew 5:7]
"If you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you.But if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your transgressions." [Matthew 6:14-15]
"I desire mercy not sacrifice." [Matthew 9:13, Hosea 6:6, Ps 51:3]

Quote:
As far as this refers to atheists, this is silly, and you know it.
No, I don't know it.

Let me ask you, do you think that I may be right; that there might be a God, Heaven and Hell? Do you think that you maybe wrong? A simple yes or no answer.

Peace and Godspeed.
Peace

"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..."

Scott

Would you do anything for the person you love?
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1192 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
But why does he choose to create people whom he knows in advance will exercise their choice so as to not follow Him?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » A TOUGH QUESTION TO ANSWER.. (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3..11..19..27..35..43~44~45~46~47..51..54..57..60..63..64~65~66 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.32 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL