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kambiz
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So does the Holy Spirit guide ONLY the Catholic Church?

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
tommy
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I don't know. I think you would have to ask the Holy Spirit.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
kambiz
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Thanks Tommy Smile

Any other answers out there.....

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
tommy
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The soul is the animating force that gives life to the body and is the thing that makes you seek the truth, Now when or if you find the truth that is when you have got the holy spirit and can speak to god. Anyone can do it god told me.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
kambiz
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That does not answer my question tommy Smile

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
tommy
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It will one day Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2012-06-26 21:12, kambiz wrote:
Hi Dreadnought,

Thankyou for your thorough reply Smile

One more question, if I may....

When you say that the Church is the fulfillment of divine revelation and is "guided by the Holy Spirit", specifically, "which" church are you referring to?
(and this question goes to any Christian that can answer too. Smile. )

Kam

It certainly isn't any particular denomination; there weren't any Catholics, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Episcopalians, Baptists, Anglicans, et al in Jesus' time. By "the Church" He meant the body of true believers. Today, I think that you'll find examples in all of the demoninations I've mentioned, and others besides. Contrariwise, I'm sure that you will find nonbelievers (or, at least, marginal believers) in each of the denominations I've mentioned, and others besides.
mastermindreader
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Insofar as the Catholic Church claims that its authority has come down in a direct line from Saint Peter, who in turn received it directly from Jesus, I always meant the Catholic Church when I referred to "the Church."

Let's see what Dreadnought says.
kambiz
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Quote:
On 2012-06-26 22:53, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-26 21:12, kambiz wrote:
Hi Dreadnought,

Thankyou for your thorough reply Smile

One more question, if I may....

When you say that the Church is the fulfillment of divine revelation and is "guided by the Holy Spirit", specifically, "which" church are you referring to?
(and this question goes to any Christian that can answer too. Smile. )

Kam

It certainly isn't any particular denomination; there weren't any Catholics, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Episcopalians, Baptists, Anglicans, et al in Jesus' time. By "the Church" He meant the body of true believers. Today, I think that you'll find examples in all of the demoninations I've mentioned, and others besides. Contrariwise, I'm sure that you will find nonbelievers (or, at least, marginal believers) in each of the denominations I've mentioned, and others besides.


So what is the difference between the Words that Jesus spoke, and the words spoken by someone who is a representative of "The Church"?

Is the words written in any denominational catechism the same as the Word of God Himself?

Who claims authority over right and wrong, when someone comes to me and is speaking while imbued with the Holy Spirit? There is definite conflict here....is the Holy Spirit in conflict with Itself?

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
The great Gumbini
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The Holy Spirit lives in believers. This is the Spirit of God. There is NO conflict whatsoever. God is not a God of confusion. Kam have you studied the Bible at all or just what the Bahai faith says about the Bible and Jesus? There is a continuity to the Scriptures. Now if we talk about "private interpretation" that is a different story. People will sometimes read something and take it to mean something else. That happens. But as you study the Bible you see how it all fits together. Remember Jesus said when a house is divided against itself it will not stand. So NO the Holy Spirit is never in conflict with itself.

There is nothing stronger than the Word of God.


Good magic to all,


Eric
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
There is nothing stronger than the Word of God.


Johnny Ace Palmer's Cups & Balls routine is really strong.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
kambiz
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Quote:
On 2012-06-27 01:41, The great Gumbini wrote:
The Holy Spirit lives in believers. This is the Spirit of God. There is NO conflict whatsoever. God is not a God of confusion. Kam have you studied the Bible at all or just what the Bahai faith says about the Bible and Jesus? There is a continuity to the Scriptures. Now if we talk about "private interpretation" that is a different story. People will sometimes read something and take it to mean something else. That happens. But as you study the Bible you see how it all fits together. Remember Jesus said when a house is divided against itself it will not stand. So NO the Holy Spirit is never in conflict with itself.

There is nothing stronger than the Word of God.


Good magic to all,


Eric



Thanks Eric. I definitely see the Holy Spirit manifested in the Apostles, and the way they promulgated the Faith of Jesus, with that there can be no question. The purity of Christianity in those days is the glory of the history of civilization. How would I have longed to live in that Day Smile

My question relies on the fact that The Church is inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit. Correct?

If the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, why would there be such variation in the various catechisms? The Holy Spirit tells the truth. Why would the Holy Spirit then reveal various catechisms? There should be just ONE catechism. Thee should be just one church, there should be just one interpretation of the Bible to provide guidance for Christians on matters not explicitly revealed in the Bible. I hope that makes sense?

Lets assume that tomorrow I wish to convert to become a Chrsitian. I am also very upset about the working conditions of several of my colleagues, and want to present my concerns about workers rights to the company I work for and the government. Which church do I join to offer me guidance on these matters? How would I know the guidance I receive is actually what Jesus wanted me to do?

I have read the Bible from cover to cover as a teenager, but never read it cover to cover again, only to remind myself of certain sections Smile

Hope that helps....I look forward to some constructive dialogue with you all Smile

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
Dreadnought
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Not looking for a fight or any debate.

According to Canon Law, the Church comprises the body of baptized Christian believers of all denominations. That body is led by the Catholic Church by virtue of being Apostolic, that is the Church is entrusted to the hands of those who have had their authority passed on to them in an unbroken line of succession from the apostles. Most Christian denominations will not accept this but by virtue of being the successor to Saint Peter, the Pope is responsible for the soul of every person on earth, just as a parish priest is responsible for every soul within his jurisdiction. As a Deacon, I am ordained clergy and my lineage goes back to Saint Bartholomew. If I were to one day, decide to become a priest, (not likely) then should I be ordained by another bishop, I would inherit that lineage as well.

The various splits of the Church, notably the Great Schism, the split between the East and West in 1054 and the reformation in 1517, did nothing to water down the authority of the Church. People, as always, have refused to accept it, to include Catholics. Even after the Great Schism, the Eastern Church was present at an ecumenical council (can't remember which one at the moment) and signed the documents of that council and part of that included the acceptance of Rome as the seat of Christian authority. Today, there are non-Catholic and Protestant Churches that are slowly recognizing the authority of the Holy See and are seeking to reunite with Rome. The Church of Sweden (Luthern)is the more notable that is seeking reunion with the Holy See. In terms of liturgy the Luthern and Anglican Church are closest to the Catholic Church, save, of course the Eastern Churches. In terms of doctrine, the Methodists are very close and even some Baptist Churches are willing to accept the Catholic doctrine of the real presence and have begun erecting altars in their sanctuaries.

Peace and Godspeed.
Peace

"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..."

Scott

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Devious
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Quote:
On 2012-06-27 01:41, The great Gumbini wrote
There is nothing stronger than the Word of God!
Eric

I don't know, my dog's breath is pretty strong as well!
Devious Deceptions
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L'Chaim!
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2012-06-27 01:47, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
There is nothing stronger than the Word of God.


Johnny Ace Palmer's Cups & Balls routine is really strong.


Toilet breaks are stronger.

People will stop doing anything for toilet breaks. Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
landmark
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Quote:
On 2012-06-27 01:47, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
There is nothing stronger than the Word of God.


Johnny Ace Palmer's Cups & Balls routine is really strong.

A cheep shot.
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2012-06-27 09:30, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-27 01:47, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
There is nothing stronger than the Word of God.


Johnny Ace Palmer's Cups & Balls routine is really strong.

A cheep shot.


Cheep? Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-06-27 09:30, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-27 01:47, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
There is nothing stronger than the Word of God.


Johnny Ace Palmer's Cups & Balls routine is really strong.

A cheep shot.


!!

Nice.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Payne
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Quote:
On 2012-06-27 02:52, Dreadnought wrote:
Not looking for a fight or any debate.

According to Canon Law, the Church comprises the body of baptized Christian believers of all denominations. That body is led by the Catholic Church by virtue of being Apostolic, that is the Church is entrusted to the hands of those who have had their authority passed on to them in an unbroken line of succession from the apostles. Most Christian denominations will not accept this but by virtue of being the successor to Saint Peter, the Pope is responsible for the soul of every person on earth, just as a parish priest is responsible for every soul within his jurisdiction. As a Deacon, I am ordained clergy and my lineage goes back to Saint Bartholomew. If I were to one day, decide to become a priest, (not likely) then should I be ordained by another bishop, I would inherit that lineage as well.

The various splits of the Church, notably the Great Schism, the split between the East and West in 1054 and the reformation in 1517, did nothing to water down the authority of the Church. People, as always, have refused to accept it, to include Catholics. Even after the Great Schism, the Eastern Church was present at an ecumenical council (can't remember which one at the moment) and signed the documents of that council and part of that included the acceptance of Rome as the seat of Christian authority. Today, there are non-Catholic and Protestant Churches that are slowly recognizing the authority of the Holy See and are seeking to reunite with Rome. The Church of Sweden (Luthern)is the more notable that is seeking reunion with the Holy See. In terms of liturgy the Luthern and Anglican Church are closest to the Catholic Church, save, of course the Eastern Churches. In terms of doctrine, the Methodists are very close and even some Baptist Churches are willing to accept the Catholic doctrine of the real presence and have begun erecting altars in their sanctuaries.

Peace and Godspeed.


Better tell these guys

http://chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp

They still maintain that the church of Rome is the Devil incarnate. Smile
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
mastermindreader
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Those chick comics remain some of the most unintentionally hilarious religious tracts that I've ever seen.
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