On 2012-06-11 01:52, critter wrote:
Most people aren't aware that I was raised Southern Baptist by a far-right family. I was even a hard-core creationist all the way through Junior High and the beginning of high school. I even remember plugging my ears when talk of evolution came up in school so that I wouldn't be "corrupted."
Well, this thread isn't about my beliefs anyway. Just some fun Critterivia there for ya'.

On 2012-06-11 17:24, R.S. wrote:

For the record, I too was brought up Catholic. Baptized in the Catholic church, went to Sunday school, received communion, confirmation - the whole thing.

On 2012-06-11 12:13, kambiz wrote:
Eric, in general I agree with your post above.

There is however a mysterious relationship between God, his chosen earthly Representatives, and humankind. The nature of that relationship, for me at least, is a fascinating exploration, filled with awe and wonder......

Good magic to you too my friend

Kam

On 2012-06-12 01:57, Payne wrote:

Quote:

On 2012-06-11 17:24, R.S. wrote:

For the record, I too was brought up Catholic. Baptized in the Catholic church, went to Sunday school, received communion, confirmation - the whole thing.

I guess I was fortunate. My mother was the religious one but she couldn't drive. My father was more apathetic than agnostic. He just wanted Sundays to himself and not waste it by going to church. So I was 25 before I ever attended a church service. And I must admit it was sort of hard to keep from laughing when I did. American Baptist. When the minister came out wading waist deep in the font behind the alter I almost lost it.

Probably a good thing I didn't go to church any earlier as I would have been a problem child. I ask far too many questions and saw through the whole scheme. I remember being six or seven when someone tried to explain the devil and hell to me. I told them that that was just stuff you told people to make them act good. I never bought it for a second.

Then of course when you get older you find out about other religions, a lot of them far older than the current ones. You start to put two and two together and come to the realization that they can't all be right, but they can all be wrong. Consequently I don't suffer from guilt or shame so it's hard for religion to get a foothold in my life as I don't have any "sins" that I feel need to be somehow forgiving by an invisible father figure in the sky.

Life's been good so far for me. I've not suffered hardships nor difficult times so I've really never had reason to seek solace in some supernatural entity. I suppose if there was a god and it really wanted me to believe in it it would have provided me with a reason to do so. So far, I can't see how my life would be any better nor different if there was such an entity in it.

On 2012-06-12 10:20, acesover wrote:

It would seem to me that you should have sought out God a long time ago for all the wonderful things that He has already bestowed on you in this life, if we can believe your story. However you seem to be doing it in reverse in that you would be seeking God for a favor because you have suffered a hardship and now need His assistance to help you throoughthis hardship. That is not seeking God. That is nothing more than seeking the good life until something goes wrong and then blame God for it Then to top it off ask for His help after shunning Him all of your life. How do you think that would turn out if it was a person that you slighted all your life and poked fun at them every chance you got? Then suddenly found yourself in need of their assistance for whatever reason after all thrse years because you fell on bad times and now want their help. Well I cannot answer for God but I can probably answer for most people if they were the one shunned and poked fun at. I think it would probably go something like this, "tough darts, that's a shame Payne". Suck it up, as they say, you reap what you sow.

On 2012-06-12 11:07, Payne wrote:
Since I'm not a devote of the faith the rules and regulations simply don't apply to me. Thus I can do all those things that are forbidden to followers of your faith without guilt or fear of admonishment. So I can happily eat Ham and Bacon, shellfish, wear poly-cotton blends, and do most anything I like on Saturday and Sunday without the slightest bit of guilt.

On 2012-06-12 11:07, Payne wrote:

Quote:

On 2012-06-12 10:20, acesover wrote:

It would seem to me that you should have sought out God a long time ago for all the wonderful things that He has already bestowed on you in this life, if we can believe your story. However you seem to be doing it in reverse in that you would be seeking God for a favor because you have suffered a hardship and now need His assistance to help you throoughthis hardship. That is not seeking God. That is nothing more than seeking the good life until something goes wrong and then blame God for it Then to top it off ask for His help after shunning Him all of your life. How do you think that would turn out if it was a person that you slighted all your life and poked fun at them every chance you got? Then suddenly found yourself in need of their assistance for whatever reason after all thrse years because you fell on bad times and now want their help. Well I cannot answer for God but I can probably answer for most people if they were the one shunned and poked fun at. I think it would probably go something like this, "tough darts, that's a shame Payne". Suck it up, as they say, you reap what you sow.

Who said I was going to ask the great invisible sky daddy for anything if and when my life becomes filled with pain and adversity? It would be kind of silly for me to ask anything from something that doesn't exist. I'd get as much help and comfort from those Pink Unicorns on Alpha Centari than I would from the equally imaginary gods.

No, if I fall flat on my face I'll get through it on my own. No need to beg made up celestial entities for help. Life isn't fair and there are no promises and guarantees. I've gotten this far on my own. I'm pretty sure I'll finish the race under my own power as well.

But thanks for your concern.

As for the sin thing. It is quite true that I have never committed one. Since I'm not a devote of the faith the rules and regulations simply don't apply to me. Thus I can do all those things that are forbidden to followers of your faith without guilt or fear of admonishment. So I can happily eat Ham and Bacon, shellfish, wear poly-cotton blends, and do most anything I like on Saturday and Sunday without the slightest bit of guilt.

On 2012-06-12 12:54, Payne wrote:
This is how the golden rule eventually got worked out. Not because of some made up supernatural entity carved them in stone. But because people sat down and worked it out for themselves.

On 2012-06-12 11:48, stoneunhinged wrote:
Payne, I think the problem with your acid wit with regard to religion is that people feel insulted. I am not a believer, but I don't feel that believers are beneath me in any way. In fact, I envy them. You say that you don't need any help. Well, I would like some; I just don't believe it's available. You seem pround of your lack of belief. I am disappointed by my inability to believe.

It's not important, but it interests me how two people with similar points of view seem to have such different points of view. You come across as angry, as if the existence of religious belief insults you personally. I truly don't think that's how you mean it, but that's how it comes across to me.

On 2012-06-12 13:23, S2000magician wrote:

[Of course, you cannot possibly be certain of this.

On 2012-06-12 14:00, Payne wrote:

Quote:

On 2012-06-12 13:23, S2000magician wrote:
Of course, you cannot possibly be certain of this.

I'd trust [cultural anthropologists'] findings over a bunch of superstitious bronze age shepard's any day

With this thought in mind as long as YOU feel that murder and robbery and lets throw in rape for good measure is not a sin or an offence this gives you the right to do these things. Well alrighty then. I can see now why you feel you hve done nothing wrong in your life. Just as an example in your defense Icanhear it now. Your honor I saw the watch lying on the counter of the jewerly store and I really believe in my heart tht if I took it there is nothing wrong with that.. The judge looks at you and says "OK I understand. NOT GUILTY. Next case". Joy breaks out in the courtroom with all of the defendants jumping up an down saying I thought it was ok to do that.

On 2012-06-12 14:15, S2000magician wrote:

Sounds like elitism to me.

On 2012-06-12 14:28, mastermindreader wrote:

That has to be one of the most blatant examples of the straw man fallacy I have ever seen. Payne was very clearly referring to "sins" such as failing to observe the Sabbath, etc. He was clearly not implying that he was not bound by civil and/or criminal laws.

Payne certainly doesn't need me to defend him, but since you decided to use a court room analogy, and since I'm a former defense attorney, I can't resist. Therefore:

Legally speaking, your response was irrelevant, incompetent and immaterial. Additionally, it assumes facts not in evidence and thus should be stricken from the record.