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LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-07-03 07:55, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 20:37, mastermindreader wrote:
Yes, I've argued repeatedly that there are very few true atheists. Most are strong agnostics who don't know the difference, or just like to call themselves atheists because they think agnostic sounds wishy washy or they just like ****ing off religious folk.

I define those who claim to have NO belief one way or the other as being agnostics.

:eek:


And Istill take issue with your definition. An atheist is someone wo doesn't believe in the existence of god(s). The ability to prove their claim has no bearing on the matter. They just don't believe that such an entity exists as they've not been provided with sufficent evidence to support the claim.

Just as a theist or diest believes there is a god even though they too have zero evidence to prove it's rather unlikely existence.

By your definition we'd all be agnostice as the whole matter of whether god(s)P exist is unknowable. At least until tommorrow when that all important paper is released from CERN. Smile


By Bob's definition (those who claim to have no belief one way or the other) we wouldn't all be agnostics, because one doesn't need "knowledge" to have belief.

It's the definition of "agnostic" most advanced by atheists that tends to eviscerate the word by encompassing everybody.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Pakar Ilusi
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On 2012-07-03 12:40, critter wrote:
I saw him in the Incredible Hulk Returns. 1988. Eric Allan Kramer.



Smile Smile

We're old.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
mastermindreader
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Payne-

No, by the definitions I am using we would NOT all be agnostics. There would still be plenty of theists around and at least one Deist. Smile

There would, however, be a lot more atheists who would have to concede that they were actually strong agnostics.
critter
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Quote:
On 2012-07-03 12:49, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-03 12:40, critter wrote:
I saw him in the Incredible Hulk Returns. 1988. Eric Allan Kramer.



Smile Smile

We're old.


Speak for yourself!
My secret is carrot juice, right after the whisky and cigars.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2012-07-03 13:21, critter wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-03 12:49, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-03 12:40, critter wrote:
I saw him in the Incredible Hulk Returns. 1988. Eric Allan Kramer.



Smile Smile

We're old.


Speak for yourself!
My secret is carrot juice, right after the whisky and cigars.


Mine is the Durian... Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2012-07-03 08:28, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Actually, by definition, we are all atheists. We all don't have a belief in some god. If you don't believe in Thor, you are an atheist.

Um . . . no.

Atheism means a belief that no God(s) exist (alternatively, all God(s) don't exist), not that some particular God(s) don't exist.
critter
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Speaking of Thor- another secret to long life from my Grandma's side is Lutefisk.
And I think durian would gum up my juicer Smile
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2012-07-03 15:05, critter wrote:
Speaking of Thor- another secret to long life from my Grandma's side is Lutefisk.
And I think durian would gum up my juicer Smile


You don't juice Durian, you eat it raw. Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
critter
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I know. I've had it. But I was talking about carrot juice before that Smile
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Pakar Ilusi
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On 2012-07-03 15:26, critter wrote:
I know. I've had it. But I was talking about carrot juice before that Smile


If the is a Supreme Being, He would love Durian. Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Jeff J.
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Quote:
On 2012-07-03 15:03, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-03 08:28, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Actually, by definition, we are all atheists. We all don't have a belief in some god. If you don't believe in Thor, you are an atheist.

Um . . . no.

Atheism means a belief that no God(s) exist (alternatively, all God(s) don't exist), not that some particular God(s) don't exist.


You are picking and choosing your definition.
LobowolfXXX
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Aren't we all?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Jeff J.
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Quote:
On 2012-07-03 16:18, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Aren't we all?


I have to agree.
R.S.
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Quote:
On 2012-07-03 16:33, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-03 16:18, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Aren't we all?


I have to agree.


I don't agree. I am an A-agreeist.

Ron
:)
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2012-06-10 00:05, acesover wrote:
Would you want there to be a Supreme Being or would you prefetr that we are here by one big accident?
...


You put yourself in a box there. Just one "creator/god" ? No oversight, comittees? How about many, many "gods" operating?

And more to my point, how could one distinguish any of these cases from any other case involving some, one, none at some given moment?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Pakar Ilusi
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Supreme Being?

Aliens... I prefer Ancient Aliens myself. Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2012-07-03 06:29, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 20:33, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 20:20, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:36, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 19:17, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Proof of some supernarural being that created everything. Supernatural claims require proof.

Of course they don't. No more than atheist's unproven claim "There is no God."

You are mistaken. We as atheists make no claims at all. All the claims are up to those who choose to hold supernatural beliefs.

Our job is easy. We don't have to believe anything and we have our Sunday's free.

Didn't we go through this about 20 pages ago?

athe·ist \ˈâ-thç-ist\ n: one who believes that there is no deity.

Atheists do, in fact, make a claim: there is no God. And they cannot prove that claim.

If you believe nothing (with respect to the existence of God), you might be an agnostic, but you're not an atheist.

Hi Bill!

I always understood that agnosticism refers to knowledge, not belief (whereas atheism refers to "belief"). An agnostic says, "I don't know", and an atheist says, "I don't believe."

From Wikipedia:
"Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[3][4][5] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist."

And from Dictionary.com:

a·the·ist   /ˈeɪθiɪst/ Show Spelled[ey-thee-ist] Show IPA
noun
"a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings."


From The Urban Dictionary:

Atheist 3992 up, 776 down
There are two in-use definitions of the word 'atheist':

1.) A person who lacks belief in a god or gods. People who use this definition categorize atheists as either negative (or implicit or weak) atheists or positive (or explicit or strong) atheists. Negative atheists, while they don't believe in a god, do not positively assert that no gods exist. Positive atheists, however, do.

2.) A person who believes that no god or gods exist.

Those who consider themselves atheists (who are usually positive atheists) tend to define 'atheist' using the former definition, and those who believe in a god or gods tend to define 'atheist' using the latter. In both cases, this seems to be a demagogic practice intended to classify either as many or as few people as atheists as possible. Negative atheists are usually referred to as agnostics.


I always considered atheism to simply be a lack of belief in gods. And by the above definitions, that would certainly be a valid description.

Again, making the positive claim, "There is NO God" (strong atheism) is certainly not the same as saying, "I don't believe any gods exist" (weak atheism, if you will). The latter does not make any claims.


Ron
:)

I took the definition from Merriam-Webster online. I'm with Bob: what you call weak atheism sounds like agnosticism to me, and what you call strong atheism sounds like atheism to me. If you choose to use a different definition of the terms, that's fine. Frankly, I think that it's silly to argue over the definition: let's just pick one and use it, then we can get to the real debate: whether people who claim that there is no God have the same burden of proof as people who clame that there is. They do.
Pakar Ilusi
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There is no God. (Which one you want? Jesus, Allah, Shiva, Xenu... )

He/She/They is/are not here.

Proof He is.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 20:20, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Quote:
On
Of course they don't. No more than atheist's unproven claim "There is no God."


You are mistaken. We as atheists make no claims at all. All the claims are up to those who choose to hold supernatural beliefs.








Quote:
On 2012-07-03 21:03, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
There is no God. (Which one you want? Jesus, Allah, Shiva, Xenu... )

He/She/They is/are not here.





Quod erat demonstrandum
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2012-07-03 21:13, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 20:20, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Quote:
On
Of course they don't. No more than atheist's unproven claim "There is no God."

You are mistaken. We as atheists make no claims at all. All the claims are up to those who choose to hold supernatural beliefs.

Quote:
On 2012-07-03 21:03, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
There is no God. (Which one you want? Jesus, Allah, Shiva, Xenu... )

He/She/They is/are not here.

Quod erat demonstrandum

I love it when you talk French.
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