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The great Gumbini
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R.S. with all due respect when one truly has a relationship (not upbringing, not church, and not even believing) with God it is IMPOSSIBLE to turn from Him. This is why people have laid their lives down and have been killed for their relationship (not belief as is so stated although the belief they speak of is that action word I talked about earlier) with God. They could no more turn their back on God then turn their back on the single most important earthly love in their life. Lets face it people are lazy and if we don't get what we want when we want it we lose interest. Show God you want to know Him. How? Simple take some time early in the morning go out side and keep asking Him if He is real to reveal Himself to you. For how long? Until He does. He will. Unbelief He can heal. Denying His existence may take longer but He will still reveal Himself. Just take 10 minutes each day until He makes Himself known. You will not be sorry. We just get so busy in our daily lives with worry and all we forget to take time for what is important. The Bible says IF you seek Him He will be found. The Bible WILL NOT make an exception for you since God does not treat those who seek Him differently. Try it you'll like it.


Good magic to all,


Eric
Steve_Mollett
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But will it work without demanding that everyone embrace divinity?
If not, gooooooood luck!
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
critter
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"You've got to let your own conscience be your guide."
-Dai Vernon
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Steve_Mollett
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Quote:
On 2012-06-12 21:16, The great Gumbini wrote:
R.S. with all due respect when one truly has a relationship (not upbringing, not church, and not even believing) with God it is IMPOSSIBLE to turn from Him. This is why people have laid their lives down and have been killed for their relationship (not belief as is so stated although the belief they speak of is that action word I talked about earlier) with God. They could no more turn their back on God then turn their back on the single most important earthly love in their life. Lets face it people are lazy and if we don't get what we want when we want it we lose interest. Show God you want to know Him. How? Simple take some time early in the morning go out side and keep asking Him if He is real to reveal Himself to you. For how long? Until He does. He will. Unbelief He can heal. Denying His existence may take longer but He will still reveal Himself. Just take 10 minutes each day until He makes Himself known. You will not be sorry. We just get so busy in our daily lives with worry and all we forget to take time for what is important. The Bible says IF you seek Him He will be found. The Bible WILL NOT make an exception for you since God does not treat those who seek Him differently. Try it you'll like it.


Good magic to all,


Eric


That assumes, without question, that God exists and that he is Jehovah.
That's fine for you, but I and many others don't buy into that assumption.
So there you are.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
kambiz
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Quote:
On 2012-06-12 21:12, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-12 20:36, kambiz wrote:
Evolution dictates that when all trees grow to a level unreachable by the giraffe, it's the striving to continue to reach those heights, which prompts the gradual progress and development of the species to adapt to the new environment.


It's not the striving of the giraffe that causes the species to adapt to a new environment. It's just that those genetic strains that are no longer sustainable simply die out.


An even better reality to use for the analogy Bob Smile

Yes it is the genetic strains. Religion is still religion, giraffes are still giraffes, the genetic strains of each are similar from one generation to the next. However, it still adapts to its environment, the ever changing world, and ever growing tree.

It would be folly for the giraffe species to totally die out just because it's environment is changing. The species must and WILL gradually adapt. To kill God altogether goes against everything rational

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
kambiz
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Quote:
On 2012-06-12 21:07, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-12 20:36, kambiz wrote:
Evolution dictates that when all trees grow to a level unreachable by the giraffe, it's the striving to continue to reach those heights, which prompts the gradual progress and development of the species to adapt to the new environment.

To categorize Gods educational framework to be exempt from that makes no rational sense. To be a preacher/minister in the church for so long, only to realize that some of the stuff therein just doesn't make sense any more, should, even to those who are lesser-developed mammals, prompt one to seek further clarification and extend oneself to ask "why?".....and thereby seek the truth.....
......not to just give up on the source of education altogether.

When you go to school Ron, you sit in grade 5 for 20 years, learn again and again the same thing, I'm not surprised you're tired of it, but giving up in the entire concept of education altogether, makes no rational sense.

Kam


Hold on Kam - to set the record straight, I was in grade 5 for 12 years... NOT 20!! Smile

Seriously though, that's a poor analogy. Use the Santa Claus analogy instead. Kids are taught to believe in Santa Claus from a young age. In fact, you might say they have no say in it. As kids, they simply accept and absorb as fact that which their parents (and society) instill in them. And guess what? They REALLY believe in Santa! But then, when they get older, they start thinking for themselves. They see inconsistencies (multiple Santa's in the same mall perhaps, or the problem of loading 1 billion presents into something the size of a station wagon). They put 2 and 2 together and then they simply stop believing. Atheists didn't become atheists because they "gave up." They became atheists because they PERSISTED in the pursuit of truth! A recent Pew Study showed that atheists as a whole are MORE knowledgeable about religion than believers - not less.


Ron


Ron, if however, the concept of Santa was maintained during your education, clarifying the real meaning behind all the skeptical reasoning which you have rightly embraced, then the possibility if Santa being real becomes more and more possible.

Your last statement about knowledgeable about religion may have been overstepping the mark don't you think Smile

Have you read any Holy Texts outside the Bible, from cover to cover?

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
Steve_Mollett
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"Intelligence flourishes only in the ages when belief withers."
- Emile M. Cioran
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2012-06-12 21:21, kambiz wrote:...
It would be folly for the giraffe species to totally die out just because it's environment is changing. The species must and WILL gradually adapt. To kill God altogether goes against everything rational

Kam


Perhaps a cue to learn a little bit about the fossil record. It appears that species die out when they are not so well equiped to thrive in the place they are - and can't get a place that's more accomedating. There are fosilized remains of astounding looking creatures which appear to have lived very long ago. Similarly in more recent times the large bears and large birds are pretty well gone from the earth with the sabre toothed cats.

Creatures of the mind live on as they maintain a useful social function. Greek Mythology was pretty open about that stuff.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Steve_Mollett
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To kill God altogether goes against everything rational

Kam

"You cannot kill what does not live!"
-Judge Death

"Everything rational"...hmmm...from where I stand, maintaining the god-myth goes against rationality.

So there you are.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
kambiz
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....maintaining honesty is a useful social function...

...so's not committing adultery.

...so is non-excessive use of alcohol...

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
mastermindreader
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Personally, I believe that the following offers an excellent perspective:

http://beatsandbuds.com/post/21749216761......ll-of-it

This is an audio by the late Robert Anton Wilson. It may enlighten, it may offend, it may cause you fall fall out of your seat laughing. Whatever... I think it's brilliant.

Good thoughts,

Bob
kambiz
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Quote:
On 2012-06-12 21:34, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Quote:
To kill God altogether goes against everything rational

Kam

"You cannot kill what does not live!"
-Judge Death

"Everything rational"...hmmm...from where I stand, maintaining the god-myth goes against rationality.

So there you are.


Yes, but Steve, you are totally ignoring all the "useful social functions" that surround that myth

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
Steve_Mollett
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Quote:
On 2012-06-12 21:35, kambiz wrote:
....maintaining honesty is a useful social function...

...so's not committing adultery.

...so is non-excessive use of alcohol...

Kam


Correct--and men can resolve to positive action without 'divinities as watchmen.'
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
kambiz
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Quote:
On 2012-06-12 21:35, mastermindreader wrote:
Personally, I believe that the following offers an excellent perspective:

http://beatsandbuds.com/post/21749216761......ll-of-it

This is an audio by the late Robert Anton Wilson. It may enlighten, it may offend, it may cause you fall fall out of your seat laughing. Whatever... I think it's brilliant.

Good thoughts,

Bob


Is that the same as the essay of the same title, Bob?

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
Steve_Mollett
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Quote:
On 2012-06-12 21:36, kambiz wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-12 21:34, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Quote:
To kill God altogether goes against everything rational

Kam

"You cannot kill what does not live!"
-Judge Death

"Everything rational"...hmmm...from where I stand, maintaining the god-myth goes against rationality.

So there you are.


Yes, but Steve, you are totally ignoring all the "useful social functions" that surround that myth

Kam


Not at all; I'm keeping the meat (social behavior) and discarding the shell (the myth).
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
kambiz
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Quote:
On 2012-06-12 21:37, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-12 21:35, kambiz wrote:
....maintaining honesty is a useful social function...

...so's not committing adultery.

...so is non-excessive use of alcohol...

Kam


Correct--and men can resolve to positive action without 'divinities as watchmen.'


You can make that statement to Payne Smile

....and the radio hosts in my town who preach God-lessness and their central teaching "a crime's not a crime, until you get caught"

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
R.S.
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Quote:
On 2012-06-12 21:16, The great Gumbini wrote:
R.S. with all due respect when one truly has a relationship (not upbringing, not church, and not even believing) with God it is IMPOSSIBLE to turn from Him. This is why people have laid their lives down and have been killed for their relationship (not belief as is so stated although the belief they speak of is that action word I talked about earlier) with God. They could no more turn their back on God then turn their back on the single most important earthly love in their life. Lets face it people are lazy and if we don't get what we want when we want it we lose interest. Show God you want to know Him. How? Simple take some time early in the morning go out side and keep asking Him if He is real to reveal Himself to you. For how long? Until He does. He will. Unbelief He can heal. Denying His existence may take longer but He will still reveal Himself. Just take 10 minutes each day until He makes Himself known. You will not be sorry. We just get so busy in our daily lives with worry and all we forget to take time for what is important. The Bible says IF you seek Him He will be found. The Bible WILL NOT make an exception for you since God does not treat those who seek Him differently. Try it you'll like it.


Good magic to all,


Eric


I, and many are others are living proof that it IS possible to stop believing in something. You stopped believing in Santa Claus at some point in your life, didn't you? And you REALLY REALLY believed, as practically all kids do. I was no less sincere in my belief in a God than any other theist.

Yes, people have laid down their lives for their God. The 9/11 hijackers are a good example of that. Is that something that's noble or desireable?

Yes, people are lazy. Intellectually lazy. It's easier to accept a warm comforting notion that things will all be made right in another life by a loving being. It's more difficult to accept the hard reality of life and the fact that nobody knows for sure what death brings.

If a Supreme Being wants me to believe, he wouldn't have allowed me to use my intellect which caused me to STOP believing in the first place!

The bible also says:
Matthew 18:19
"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven."

What do you, as a SINCERE believer, think would happen if you and another 100% sincere believer prayed for an end to childhood cancers? Try it.


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2012-06-12 21:37, kambiz wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-12 21:35, mastermindreader wrote:
Personally, I believe that the following offers an excellent perspective:

http://beatsandbuds.com/post/21749216761......ll-of-it

This is an audio by the late Robert Anton Wilson. It may enlighten, it may offend, it may cause you fall fall out of your seat laughing. Whatever... I think it's brilliant.

Good thoughts,

Bob


Is that the same as the essay of the same title, Bob?

Kam


No. Same attitude, different material. Note that that link only goes to the first 15 minutes of his presentation. The rest of it can be heard on YouTube, if you are interested, where it is posted in several parts.

Good thoughts,

Bob
R.S.
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Quote:
On 2012-06-12 21:28, kambiz wrote:
Ron, if however, the concept of Santa was maintained during your education, clarifying the real meaning behind all the skeptical reasoning which you have rightly embraced, then the possibility if Santa being real becomes more and more possible.

Your last statement about knowledgeable about religion may have been overstepping the mark don't you think Smile

Have you read any Holy Texts outside the Bible, from cover to cover?

Kam


That's like me telling you after you have rejected Leprechauns, "Yeah but if the concept of Leprechauns was maintained clarifying the real meaning behind all the skeptical reasoning which you have rightly embraced, then the possibility of Leprechauns being real becomes more and more possible."


Why should I maintain a concept that I have examined and rejected?

Why was my last statement "overstepping the mark"? I cited an actual study that was done. And here it is:

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1745/religio......-highest

Best,
Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
critter
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"That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons, even death may die."
-Howard Phillips Lovecraft
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
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