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Pakar Ilusi
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On 2012-06-13 13:48, acesover wrote:
Is it really that difficult for people to see that they must accept God through their Free Will?

It would mean nothing if he made you accept Him.

It is like giving you a piece of marble and asking you to create a masterpiece. But instead of using a chisel and sculptor tools we set up a computer system that does all the work for you and carves out a statue. All you had to do was turn on a switch and it was done for you. Is that really a masterpiece? Well that is the arguement that many give here. Why doesn'tGod just make me do it as he is God? Because He loved you so much He gave you free will to determine your own destiny. It is really quite simple.


He loves you so much that he gave you a chance to go to Hell?

Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Payne
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On 2012-06-13 02:24, acesover wrote:

I asked many times what proof would one need in order to believe in God. I have yet to get any kind of legitimate answer. That should tell you something.



I've answered that question. Just because you didn't like the answer doesn't mean I didn't provide you with one. But in case you missed it my answer is thus.

"When you decide exactly what it would take for you to believe in Zeus, Ra, Odin or any one of the multitude of gods that have been worshiped in other cultures and other times then you will know what it takes for me to believe in yours. To me your god is no different than any other. So when you discover that one thing that can make you believe in Zeus as fervently as you believe in Yahweh then you'll have your answer
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On 2012-06-13 13:48, acesover wrote:
Is it really that difficult for people to see that they must accept God through their Free Will?

It would mean nothing if he made you accept Him.

It is like giving you a piece of marble and asking you to create a masterpiece. But instead of using a chisel and sculptor tools we set up a computer system that does all the work for you and carves out a statue. All you had to do was turn on a switch and it was done for you. Is that really a masterpiece? Well that is the arguement that many give here. Why doesn'tGod just make me do it as he is God? Because He loved you so much He gave you free will to determine your own destiny. It is really quite simple.



I think you right acesover.
God kept it simple for us simple minded people.
He didn't say challenge me and I will prove myself.
He said have have faith in me.

Not always easy to prove that faith, but it is always that simple.

Tom
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critter
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But when the Egyptians challenged him he felt like he had to prove himself, if you take that account as accurate.
This word "simple..." I do not think it means what you think it means.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
TomBoleware
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Oh sure he could, I'm just saying he is not obligated to do anything.
The burden of proof is on us, not him.

Tom
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Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2012-06-13 14:09, TomBoleware wrote:
Oh sure he could, I'm just saying he is not obligated to do anything.
The burden of proof is on us, not him.

Tom


Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Slide
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"Because I think deep down we love the idea of someone loving us the way only God could."

Yeah...I love my kids like that. I make them worship the ground I walk on and if they do anything wrong I plan on blow torching their feet and water boarding them for the rest of eternity. That's how much I love my kids.
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The Book of Job provides an interesting insight into the lengths the god of the Old Testament was willing to go to to provide proof. He destroyed everything the poor guy had and everyone he loved just to prove that Job was his loyal servant.
Payne
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Quote:
On 2012-06-13 13:48, acesover wrote:
Is it really that difficult for people to see that they must accept God through their Free Will?


We've been through this. Free will is an illusion. If you're god is omniscient then it knows the future. If it knows the future then it's predetermined. If everything is predetermined then we really have no choice in anything. We might think we're chosing to go right instead of left of our own free will. But since god already knew which direction we were going to choose we really didn't have any say so in the matter. It's simply impossible to have free will with an all-knowing god in the picture. I am not even writing this under my own free will as god already knew exactly what I was going to say even before it created the universe.

Quote:

It would mean nothing if he made you accept Him.



This didn't seem to bother it in the Old Testament past where it would make its presence known at the drop of a hat.

Quote:

It is like giving you a piece of marble and asking you to create a masterpiece. But instead of using a chisel and sculptor tools we set up a computer system that does all the work for you and carves out a statue. All you had to do was turn on a switch and it was done for you. Is that really a masterpiece? Well that is the arguement that many give here. Why doesn'tGod just make me do it as he is God? Because He loved you so much He gave you free will to determine your own destiny. It is really quite simple.



Yet it loves us so much that it's perfectly happy to cast us in a lake of fire for all eternity simply because we couldn't take the stories of a bunch of Bronze Age shepherds any more seriously than the myths and legends of other cultures.

It loves us enough to find us guilty of crimes that we ourselves didn't commit. But were instigated by our ancient ancestors when Eve disobeyed its explicit instruction. Instructions by the way it gave to her in person. So why wasn't her free will negated by it doing this? It also must not be to impressive of a god if Eve felt that she could somehow get away with disobeying it. But then again she hadn't yet partaken of the fruit of the tree of knowledge so she more than likely wasn't firing on all cylinders Smile
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Payne
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On 2012-06-13 13:51, Pakar Ilusi wrote:

I say that God doesn't exist.

If you can't prove to me He does, I say He doesn't.

Right here, right now. Meet me... God.



Pakar my man, you're doing it completely wrong. you're supposed to go outside early in the morning all by yourself and keep asking god to make its presence known to you over and over again until it decides to do so.

Failing that try saying Bettlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice Smile

Both have an equal chance of netting a result.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
The great Gumbini
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Jeff your comments don't sting a bit. You see my friend I have a relationship with God and I have seen His mighty hand move in my life (no brag just fact). I could not turn from such a great love in my life. I would turn on myself first. It is clear and obvious that those who do not believe have NOT had this relationship with God (yet). Once you have had this in your life you would never let it go even if times got hard. You need to see that this relationship is in fact possible and is available to those who will truly seek Him. You can try all the "stings" you want but it will have no effect on me because of my relationship with God. I don't mean to be mean with anyone about this I simply want you to know God really does exist and He will reveal Himself to you if you really want that. The Middle East is just one example of things moving in the right direction for Christ to come. Another of course is the only way to buy or sell is for a mark to be given talked about in Revelation. Until very recently this technology did not exist---today we know it does. Everything is pointing strongly to what the Bible says. How long before the Middle East erupts? I honestly don't know. However going the way it is I think 5 years is way to generous.


Good magic to all,


Eric
Payne
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Quote:
On 2012-06-13 14:13, mastermindreader wrote:
The Book of Job provides an interesting insight into the lengths the god of the Old Testament was willing to go to to provide proof. He destroyed everything the poor guy had and everyone he loved just to prove that Job was his loyal servant.


But he only did it as a bet. So we're little more than playthings to this god. It loves us so much that it's more than willing to kill, maim and destroy whatever it wants simply so it can win a wager. Perfectly pointless and perverse especially when you consider that due to its omniscient nature it already knew the outcome of the bet.

That's the sick and twisted deity you get stuck with if you take the story of Job literally. However as a fable you get a valuable lesson on the power of faith and putting your trust in god. Which is why I've never understood why a small segment of the religious community takes everything in the Bible literally. Don't they see that by doing this that it makes god into a pretty horrific personage and you miss the teachings and lessons to be found in many of the stories?
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2012-06-13 14:21, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-13 13:51, Pakar Ilusi wrote:

I say that God doesn't exist.

If you can't prove to me He does, I say He doesn't.

Right here, right now. Meet me... God.



Pakar my man, you're doing it completely wrong. you're supposed to go outside early in the morning all by yourself and keep asking god to make its presence known to you over and over again until it decides to do so.

Failing that try saying Bettlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice Smile

Both have an equal chance of netting a result.


I see... Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2012-06-13 14:28, The great Gumbini wrote:
Jeff your comments don't sting a bit. You see my friend I have a relationship with God and I have seen His mighty hand move in my life (no brag just fact). I could not turn from such a great love in my life. I would turn on myself first. It is clear and obvious that those who do not believe have NOT had this relationship with God (yet). Once you have had this in your life you would never let it go even if times got hard. You need to see that this relationship is in fact possible and is available to those who will truly seek Him. You can try all the "stings" you want but it will have no effect on me because of my relationship with God. I don't mean to be mean with anyone about this I simply want you to know God really does exist and He will reveal Himself to you if you really want that. The Middle East is just one example of things moving in the right direction for Christ to come. Another of course is the only way to buy or sell is for a mark to be given talked about in Revelation. Until very recently this technology did not exist---today we know it does. Everything is pointing strongly to what the Bible says. How long before the Middle East erupts? I honestly don't know. However going the way it is I think 5 years is way to generous.


Good magic to all,


Eric


We'll come back to this post in 5 years and see what happens okay?
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Payne
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Quote:
On 2012-06-13 14:28, The great Gumbini wrote:

Everything is pointing strongly to what the Bible says. How long before the Middle East erupts? I honestly don't know. However going the way it is I think 5 years is way to generous.



So ten years from now when nothing has changed and the endtimes are still "just around the corner" will you be willing to throw in the towel? How about in fifteen? Twenty? How long are you willing to wait?
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Jonathan Townsend
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It's not about the waiting so much as feeling smug about being rewarded while others suffer while time goes by. A sort of passive-aggressive way to wish ill upon others while avoiding responsibility for a toxic inner life.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-06-13 13:51, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-13 13:38, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-13 12:45, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
What proof?

God talking to me right now. Himself. In Person and in English.


Well that is an answer. However I do not see that happening just yet. However in End Times of which I have no idea when it will occur God wil appear in person to all.

I am not positive that He will not appear to you personally to convert you to a believer even though he loves you. But you must remember because He loves you he gave you free will to make your own decisions. However if he did appear to you inperson, how would you know it was really God? Sooner or later you have to take that leap of faith. What if it was mstermindreader dressed up in a God costume? If he then took it off and said I fooled you would you lose your belief? Yet for that brief moment you believed. If so and again you say I don't believe, you never believed in the first place. Which proves there is nothing that can convince you is there? The only thing that can make you believe in God is your own Free Will.

You really don't want proof. By your own free will you are satisfied with what you have now. Good for you. As they say "enjoy".

Good luck in accomplishing your hopes and desires.


Wow, talk about putting words in my mouth... Smile

I say that God doesn't exist.

If you can't prove to me He does, I say He doesn't.

Right here, right now. Meet me... God.

Impostors?

He is God, He should be able to make me know He is God and not an impostor.

If He can't even do that, when He can do everything else, he ain't God.

Good luck to you too.


Guess you missed the free will post. Or chose to ignore it. Whatever.

Have a nice day.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Pakar Ilusi
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On 2012-06-13 15:16, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
It's not about the waiting so much as feeling smug about being rewarded while others suffer while time goes by. A sort of passive-aggressive way to wish ill upon others while avoiding responsibility for a toxic inner life.


Hey, I would rather they "see the light...". If it takes time, it takes time.

We all have toxic inner lives imho... What with all the pollution and stuff. Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-06-13 13:52, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-13 13:48, acesover wrote:
Is it really that difficult for people to see that they must accept God through their Free Will?

It would mean nothing if he made you accept Him.

It is like giving you a piece of marble and asking you to create a masterpiece. But instead of using a chisel and sculptor tools we set up a computer system that does all the work for you and carves out a statue. All you had to do was turn on a switch and it was done for you. Is that really a masterpiece? Well that is the arguement that many give here. Why doesn'tGod just make me do it as he is God? Because He loved you so much He gave you free will to determine your own destiny. It is really quite simple.


He loves you so much that he gave you a chance to go to Hell?

Smile


And some choose it.

If He gave you no choice what would that be like? Take responsibility for your own actions. Grow up. Blame no one but yourself for your situation. You had choices and you made them. Now live and die with those choices. Simple as that.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Slide
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"The Book of Job provides an interesting insight into the lengths the god of the Old Testament was willing to go to to provide proof. He destroyed everything the poor guy had and everyone he loved just to prove that Job was his loyal servant."


Job: "God, I am your most loyal subject and yet you've destroyed my property, my family, given me boils, and left me to die on a dung heap. Why God, why?"
God: "You know Job,...there is just something about you that ****es me off. "
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