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The great Gumbini
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People ask for OTHERS to prove God's existence. We can not prove this to you. Only God can. Believers who KNOW God can only point people in the right direction. Just as on a blind date we can introduce you but then it's up to you. The Bible is very clear if you draw closer to God He will draw close to you. If you seek Him with your whole being you will find Him. How long will it take? It took me 28 years. But I prayed to God and asked if He was really real to please let me know. I started to read the Bible and though man this is some interesting stuff. Then I actually saw things happen in my life that were brought about by God's mighty hand. I'm 54 now and I'm still looking to know Him more. I'm not a stuffy person and I do not always walk as I should but I know when those slip ups happen I turn to God and ask Him to forgive me and go on learning more about Him. I know when I am weak He is strong. I'm glad I'm able to lean on the One who helps me day to day. You too can have this but I can not prove it to you. YOU however can prove it to you. God will reveal Himself if you seek Him. Go ahead prove me wrong and give it a 100 percent try.


Good magic to all,


Eric
critter
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http://www.gallup.com/poll/147887/americ......god.aspx
The results were obtained via telephone interviews.
Now ask yourself:
What sorts of people are most likely to want to complete a telephone survey- Those who believe strongly enough in something to want to talk to a random stranger on the phone about it, or those who don't believe in that thing at all?
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
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mastermindreader
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I was unaware that the existence of God could sufficiently be proven (or disproven) by a public opinion poll. Centuries ago most people, including scientists and people of faith, believed that the Sun revolved around the earth.

Were they right?

Quote:
Nec audiendi qui solent dicere, Vox populi, vox Dei, quum tumultuositas vulgi semper insaniae proxima sit.

"And those people should not be listened to who keep saying the voice of the people is the voice of God, since the riotousness of the crowd is always very close to madness."

- Alcuin (in a letter to Charlemagne) 798 CE.
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2012-06-13 15:35, Slide wrote:
... I simply want you to know God really does exist and He will ...


Since when does the Easter Rabbit want to be called god, especially with a capital G?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Payne
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On 2012-06-13 17:15, acesover wrote:

It is rather strange or coinsidence or possibly prophecy that that is where all the problems are at this time, well not all, but a good portion of them and the most likely place to trigger something horrific. And what is the biggest problem there? Religious beliefs. It has been said in the bible that this is where the end of times will start and it looks to be right. That in itself does not make all the other things in the bible true, but I believe they are and while I also believe the bible, it cannot be taken literally but has to be taken as to the time it was written and the conditions at that time and the lost translation or mistranslation through time. Just cya here want to cover all my bases ,ha ha.



Not strange at all and hardly prophetic. When much of the Bible was written the middle east was in turmoil. and it's been pretty much in a constant state of turmoil ever since. So really it wasn't too much of a stretch to make such a prophecy. Now if the prophecies had mentioned either the oil reserves or the rise of Islam I might be persuaded to take your prophecies a little more seriously. But to predict a world in turmoil in an already tumultuous land. Not much of a stretch there. There is also a bit of self fulfilling prophecy to be had with the return of the Israeli state. So it's return isn't all that shockingly prophetic either. So all in all I find the whole end times predicitons to be less than compelling.
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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2012-06-13 15:40, critter wrote:
FYI,
We prefer to call them "people with schizophrenia." It's generally passe to refer to a person as a disease.
Though I have often done this myself out of old habits.
This is just for general informational purposes.


Unfortunately you can't have that sort of disease in the room without the person. They are not "with" a disease. They have the disease. They have an arm (or two). They have a pattern of chemical and behavioral traits we call schizophrenia.

Or do mental illnesses now count as the "plus one" on invitations?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2012-06-13 18:57, mastermindreader wrote:
I was unaware that the existence of God could sufficiently be proven (or disproven) by a public opinion poll. Centuries ago most people, including scientists and people of faith, believed that the Sun revolved around the earth.

Were they right?

Quote:
Nec audiendi qui solent dicere, Vox populi, vox Dei, quum tumultuositas vulgi semper insaniae proxima sit.

"And those people should not be listened to who keep saying the voice of the people is the voice of God, since the riotousness of the crowd is always very close to madness."

- Alcuin (in a letter to Charlemagne) 798 CE.



Ah, you touch upon the notions of rancor and vanity. Tanrums and social justification. Do you think they are related? Perhaps Alcuin believed such could be the case?

One might attempt to prove that one could imagine (or hold) a sense of primal divinity in an "all things" type sense - or instead argue that there are as many gods as there are things, each with its own nature and they in turn guided by their various qualia - those things close to human nature may as well be seen in terms of human nature ( see above Smile )

As far as the sun goes - it works out very well to live with a model of the sun and moon going around the earth. Such has proved workable for most practical agrarian purposes for millenia. It's only when you get enough detailed observations to notice some tiny features of the motions of some things in the sky (planets in retrograde part of orbit) that it gets more sensible to use the Copernican model. Same for Newton's laws of motion.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-06-13 19:07, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-13 17:15, acesover wrote:

It is rather strange or coinsidence or possibly prophecy that that is where all the problems are at this time, well not all, but a good portion of them and the most likely place to trigger something horrific. And what is the biggest problem there? Religious beliefs. It has been said in the bible that this is where the end of times will start and it looks to be right. That in itself does not make all the other things in the bible true, but I believe they are and while I also believe the bible, it cannot be taken literally but has to be taken as to the time it was written and the conditions at that time and the lost translation or mistranslation through time. Just cya here want to cover all my bases ,ha ha.



Not strange at all and hardly prophetic. When much of the Bible was written the middle east was in turmoil. and it's been pretty much in a constant state of turmoil ever since. So really it wasn't too much of a stretch to make such a prophecy. Now if the prophecies had mentioned either the oil reserves or the rise of Islam I might be persuaded to take your prophecies a little more seriously. But to predict a world in turmoil in an already tumultuous land. Not much of a stretch there. There is also a bit of self fulfilling prophecy to be had with the return of the Israeli state. So it's return isn't all that shockingly prophetic either. So all in all I find the whole end times predicitons to be less than compelling.


Here is something to consider. Not my thinking or writing and I veryseldom use he net as a resource but this is interesting beause of the mention of the rise Islam not being mentioned in the bible.

Is Islam in the bible?





The religion of the end time in bible prophecy

The religion of the end time will be one where the false prophet will deceive the whole world and cause the world to worship the Antichrist by doing miracles such as pulling fire from the sky. This religion already exists but will be made universal by the power given the Antichrist and the false prophet by the devil. The bible doesn't specifically tells us what that religion will be called, but we can determine what it will be by looking at the facts. The world is pretty much dominated by Christianity and Islam (over half of the worlds population combined). While Hinduism, Atheism and Communism make up most of the remainder, it doesn't look like they will play much of a role in the end time.

Christianity today is full of churches proclaiming that all religions worship the same God and therefore we should embrace them. The Catholic church promotes that idea with Interfaith doctrine and goes as far as to state in the Catechism that the Muslims worship the same God as Christianity and therefore will enjoy the same salvation equally. This means that they think it doesn't matter if you're a Christian or a Muslim and that you can find salvation through either religion.

The Muslims, on the other hand, have no such belief. In fact, Muslim doctrine teaches that Jesus is just a prophet, not the manifestation of God in the flesh, and that He will return at the end time to teach Christians the Muslim way and convert them. The prophecies of the bible and the Muslim prophecies concerning the Antichrist (the Muslim Mahdi) and the false prophet (the Muslim Jesus) mirror each other but the good guys of Islam are the bad guys of the bible. This is a very good indication that the Antichrist will rise as the Mahdi of Islam and will unite the Christian world with him via the false prophet and create a global Islamic religion. The bible tells us that this end time religion will be forced upon people or they will be killed if they refuse. The Muslim prophecies tell us that the Muslims will kill any who won't convert to Islam.

The bible tells us that the world will be fooled by the false prophet performing miracles in the sight of men, like pulling fire from the sky. The false prophet will seem to everyone to have Godly power and will fool everyone into worshiping the Antichrist.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
mastermindreader
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I agree. And for many people it works out very well to live with a model of a beneficent God ruling over and personally involving Himself in the affairs of men.

For others, not so much. (Particularly if they don't have the same beliefs as the majority.)
kambiz
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Quote:
On 2012-06-13 16:55, mastermindreader wrote:
Now will anyone whose opinions about religion have changed as the result of anything that has been set forth in this thread, please raise their hands?

Anyone? Buehler? Anyone?


Me!!!!

My opinions and thoughts and understandings on life have changed quite a lot actually

I'm thankful for all this Smile

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
mastermindreader
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Excellent, Kam. You will get a gold star on your report card! Smile
mastermindreader
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My post before my last one was an answer to Jonathan. Acesover got a post in there ahead of me!

As to acesover's question - Is Islam in the Bible? Well, parts of it are (in a sense), considering that it is an Abrahamic religion. But Islam did not appear until the 7th Century, so of course it isn't mentioned in the Bible.
Slide
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"The bible tells us that the world will be fooled by the false prophet performing miracles in the sight of men, like pulling fire from the sky. The false prophet will seem to everyone to have Godly power and will fool everyone into worshiping the Antichrist."

Good lord.

I would really appreciate it if people stopped saying "The Bible" as if it is some logically coherent structure written by one person. It is a collection of stories, epistles, myth, and strange prophesy. The final collection was put together by the vatican some time after the 10th century (if I'm not mistaken) and many stories were left out, others were put in, all of it was political and based on a religious struggle for power. We know that now having uncovered gnostic gospels and other manuscripts including one believed to have been written by Jesus's brother. How come that didn't get in there.

It would be great if you could just say: In the book of Revelations, or in Paul's letter to whomever. That way we'd know how much credence to give what you say. It is possible to accept certain books that ancient collection and not others.
critter
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Quote:
On 2012-06-13 19:08, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-13 15:40, critter wrote:
FYI,
We prefer to call them "people with schizophrenia." It's generally passe to refer to a person as a disease.
Though I have often done this myself out of old habits.
This is just for general informational purposes.


Unfortunately you can't have that sort of disease in the room without the person. They are not "with" a disease. They have the disease. They have an arm (or two). They have a pattern of chemical and behavioral traits we call schizophrenia.

Or do mental illnesses now count as the "plus one" on invitations?


It's not an idea that I came up with, it's just the way they're teaching us to say it these days. Kind of like how we're not supposed to say "subjects" anymore.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
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critter
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Although, having had a short thunk about it, I suppose an argument could be made for a person being with or without some of the symptoms of schizophrenia. Supposing that they respond well to anti-psychotic medications, that is. They would still have schizophrenia, but not display signs of schizophrenia. Just a thought.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
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The great Gumbini
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Islam came later you guys. It is actually the first religion to try to refute Christian teaching. They teach Jesus was a great prophet but not the Son of God. There will be an antichrist that will come. This will happen AFTER the new Temple is built. This antichrist will stand in The Most Holy part of the Temple and proclaim to be God and will demand people to worship him. There will be thing he will do that will appear to be miracles and he will usher in a peace treaty that will last only three and half years. The animal sacrifices will start back up in this Temple. There was a need for a red hefer and until about 25 or so years ago none were to be found. Now in Israel there is reported to be one that will be continually made available for when the time is right. How this is being done is a matter of debate most believe cloning is taking place. But there is one at the ready. It is at the point in time where too many things are coming together to ignore. But I have learned there are 3 types of people in the World. Those who make things happen, those who watch things happen and those who ask "what happened". Which one are you?


Good magic to all,


Eric
kambiz
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Quote:
On 2012-06-13 23:38, The great Gumbini wrote:
Islam came later you guys. It is actually the first religion to try to refute Christian teaching. They teach Jesus was a great prophet but not the Son of God. There will be an antichrist that will come. This will happen AFTER the new Temple is built. This antichrist will stand in The Most Holy part of the Temple and proclaim to be God and will demand people to worship him. There will be thing he will do that will appear to be miracles and he will usher in a peace treaty that will last only three and half years. The animal sacrifices will start back up in this Temple. There was a need for a red hefer and until about 25 or so years ago none were to be found. Now in Israel there is reported to be one that will be continually made available for when the time is right. How this is being done is a matter of debate most believe cloning is taking place. But there is one at the ready. It is at the point in time where too many things are coming together to ignore. But I have learned there are 3 types of people in the World. Those who make things happen, those who watch things happen and those who ask "what happened". Which one are you?


Good magic to all,


Eric



Eric, how do you understand the stance of the Unitarian Church claiming that they have evidence to prove that Jesus was a Prophet, and not the Son of God?

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
The great Gumbini
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To be honest Kam I have yet to see any position that accepts Jesus as a Prophet yet does not accept what this Prophet has to say as truth to make any sense at all. How can you call someone a Prophet of God if the Prophet is lying as to who he is? Jesus was very clear He was/is the Son of God. He also claimed He and the Father are One. ALL of these churches and entities and religions that profess Jesus is indeed a Prophet but then turn around and say He IS NOT whom He claimed to be is like a cat chasing it's tail. A Prophet MUST MUST MUST speak the truth. The Bible is clear AGAIN on this. It teaches if a person claims to be a prophet and says a certain thing will happen and it does not. Then we are not to believe that person is a prophet. Jesus knows WHO He is. The term Abba means "daddy" in an intimate relationship. This is the actual word Jesus used when talking TO the Father. And GOD Himself declared "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased". You know the amazing thing about the Bible is the more you study and the deeper you study it the more you can see it MUST be the Word of God. Folks you spend so much time kicking against a Book that is so awesome! Yes it is blunt and tells it like it is. No punches are pulled and some pretty awful things happened. But it tells the truth. No sugar coating. I do hope most of the people on here have read it at least once. I have several times and it always never fails to amaze me how I'll find new understanding of things I've read before and just never saw the real meaning. It always deepens my walk. There are a lot of things I question in life. But my love for God and His love for me is unconditional. His Word is 100 percent True. And His ways are the absolute best ways. Those I do not question. Are there a lot of studies and religions that try to refute what God says? You bet. But God and His Word stand firm. It challenges anyone to read it and follow what it says and see if their lives improve. that's awesome! that's God and that's His Word.


Good magic to all,


Eric
kambiz
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Well Eric, I can put hand on heart and tell you that the President of the Unitarian Church in Australia is a dental patient of mine, and He puts his hand on his heart and tells me that the accounts related to Jesus claiming He is the Son of God are incorrect....

I have no idea personally, and as a Bahai, I can tell you that the Bahai position is that He is the Son of God, but I am keen to know what all this from a Unitarian point of view really means?

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
acesover
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You naysayers of the bible confuse me. Why would you worry about something you know does not exist and is all made up? Why would you discuss the bible when you know it not to be true or factual? What would be your point?

The only reason I can think of is that you are a missionary of sorts trying to convert those who believe it to be true and factual, to your way of thinking that it is not. But for the life of me I cannot figure out why? Surely you are not trying to save us. If so from what?

At least those who are trying to convert you (and I am not one of them) are trying to save, what they feel is your immortal soul. Yet your discouraging them from their belief serves no purpose. I just don't understand. Smile
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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