We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » A TOUGH QUESTION TO ANSWER.. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3..7..11..15..19~20~21~22~23..32..40..48..56..64~65~66 [Next]
stoneunhinged
View Profile
Inner circle
3080 Posts

Profile of stoneunhinged
Quote:
On 2012-06-15 10:40, mastermindreader wrote:
That's a tough question to answer.


You're being tautological. LOL!
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 23:36, mastermindreader wrote:
Acesover-

To get a bit back on topic, though, do you agree or disagree with the following statement. I'd really like to know:

The question about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man.


Yes.

However the issue remains that mans apperanace is trying to be explained scientifically and no consideration is given by the scientific community that a Supreme Being put the whole thing in motion which obviously includes the appearance of man.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 23:42, kambiz wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 23:16, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 22:07, mastermindreader wrote:
Until the showdown, when he loses the pot. Reality doesn't care what anyone believes.


I don't think you are a poker player or you would have asked what the cards actually were before saying he lost the hand. Let me just give you a hint. A lot of hands beat a flush.

Think ouside the box. Come on you are smarter than that. So his "believe what you want" could very well be a come on. Just like me saying believe what YOU want it does not matter, only the truth matters. All is well that ends well. So believe what you want it is definitely your decision to gather the information and decide what you will, or as I said...believe what you want. Just like the saying goes. You cannot see the forest because of the trees. No flush, BUT. No scientific proof BUT.

In the end no one knows for sure do they? There are some who claim to know one way or the other. There are some who know they are right they are the devout believers. But for the most part I believe like my buddy says. Believe what you want...it does not matter to him what you believe. He knows the truth, he knows what he is holding and all you are doing is guessing and taking into acount his statement saying I have a flush. A simple analogy here would be the two cards inhishand are the bible and that holds al lthe answers to the hand, because he is holding the nuts. Hope you undersand poker terms.



Mate I hope you answer the question above from Bob....

"For the people are wandering in the paths of delusion, bereft of discernment to see God with their own eyes, or hear His Melody with their own ears. Thus have We found them, as thou also dost witness." - Baha'u'llah

Kam


As I said lots of hands beat a flush. What he said I have a flush and what you believe...ahhh now that is the question isn't it? Not trying to turn this into a poker thread but if you make your decision on this hand by his statement you are a fool.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Quote:
On 2012-06-15 10:52, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 23:36, mastermindreader wrote:
Acesover-

To get a bit back on topic, though, do you agree or disagree with the following statement. I'd really like to know:

The question about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man.


Yes.

However the issue remains that mans apperanace is trying to be explained scientifically and no consideration is given by the scientific community that a Supreme Being put the whole thing in motion which obviously includes the appearance of man.


I would hardly say that no consideration is given to the idea that a Supreme Being put the whole thing into motion. As a Deist, I agree totally with that. And many scientists would agree as well, even though they will readily state that the question is really outside the scope of science.

You might want to read Francis Collins' (of the Human Genome Project) book "The Language of God - A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief."
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
Quote:
On 2012-06-15 08:04, Woland wrote:
Hi Payne,

Quote:
Kind of difficult to compute the actual value of Pi in roman numerals and without a decimal point. It'd look something like III.XIV So in Biblical times I suppose Pi was three and a little extra. It can't be exactly ten cubits across and thirty cubits around. The math doesn't work that way. So if the Bible was going to be literally accurate it should have said "Thirty Cubits and a little bit more".


There are a couple of problems with this objection, which I hope you will forgive me as characterizing as architypical of the "village atheist" school of Bible criticism. Smile

First, such a reader is assuming that the Bible wants to teach you mathematics. Rather than trying to understand what the Bible is communicating, such a reader arbitrarily demand that the Bible communicate whatever it is that such a reader may from time to time think should be communicated.

The Bible is not a mathematical textbook, but a set of moral instructions that are conveyed in various ways, including through histories and allegories. For the purpose of describing the Temple and its appurtenances, the figures given are perfectly adequate.

Second of all, the measurements may in fact be entirely accurate. As was pointed out and published about 1850 years ago, if the diameter of 10 cubits was measured from outer edge to outer edge, and the thickness of the vessel was about one hand's breadth, the circumference of the inner surface, which is relevant to the actual volume of water, would be very close to 30 cubits.

Thirdly, there is an anomalous spelling in the verse you cite. The word for measuring line is spelled (in transliteration) QWH rather than QH. As I am sure you know, the ancient Hebrews used their alphabet as numerals as well, so that there is a numerical value that can be determined for every word. If you take the ratio of the unusual spelling to the usual spelling (QWH/QH or 111/106) you get a figure that is closer to the true value of pi than the 22/7 - and within 1/10,000 of the true value. For an irrational number that can only be approximated, that is pretty good.

The first point is the most important. The Bible was written in the language of human beings, was intended to be studied and used by human beings, and is not a substitute for mathematics.

Unlike the Caliph Omar, we don't assume that every other book in the world either repeats what is already in one book, or contradicts what is already in that one book, and hence superfluous.


I KNEW THAT THERE STUFF HE SAID ABOUT THAT OTHER STUFF. Smile
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Payne
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle
4572 Posts

Profile of Payne
Quote:
On 2012-06-15 08:04, Woland wrote:

The Bible is not a mathematical textbook, but a set of moral instructions that are conveyed in various ways, including through histories and allegories. For the purpose of describing the Temple and its appurtenances, the figures given are perfectly adequate.



Quite true. For rational human beings. However if your one of those who takes the bible literally and need everything in it to be true and factual then Pi becomes 3. It's all there in black and white. An unfortunate perspective adopted by far too many a fundamentalist.

Pi in the bible is a cheap parlor trick used to point out that book is not a text on History, Mathematics or Law. But instead is a series of stories to aid us in our ethical and moral development.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Slide
View Profile
Special user
533 Posts

Profile of Slide
"However the issue remains that mans apperanace is trying to be explained scientifically and no consideration is given by the scientific community that a Supreme Being put the whole thing in motion which obviously includes the appearance of man. "

In order for that to happen there would have to be evidence of that, not conjecture based on a lack of understanding. If I don't understand how a TV works, I can't just say Unicorns built it. I need to base scientfic explaination on evidence.
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
Quote:
On 2012-06-15 12:04, Slide wrote:
"However the issue remains that mans apperanace is trying to be explained scientifically and no consideration is given by the scientific community that a Supreme Being put the whole thing in motion which obviously includes the appearance of man. "

In order for that to happen there would have to be evidence of that, not conjecture based on a lack of understanding. If I don't understand how a TV works, I can't just say Unicorns built it. I need to base scientfic explaination on evidence.


Well if you subscribe to the Big Bang theory then this is what you believe.

First there was nothing. Then there was something.

And you believe that? very scientific indeed. That is the explanation of the BBT.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Once again, acesover, the Catholic Church itself has no problem with the Big Bang Theory (or evolution for that matter). What happened "before" the Big Bang is a metaphysical question to which the Church offers an answer.
Woland
View Profile
Special user
680 Posts

Profile of Woland
Hi Bob,

Quite right about the Big Bang, and evolution too, I think. A physicist named Gerald Schroeder has written several books in which he shows how the 6 days of Creation fit the broad outlines of the Big Bang, cosmogenesis, and the origins of life, as imagined by mainstream science.
Steve_Mollett
View Profile
Inner circle
Eh, so I've made
3010 Posts

Profile of Steve_Mollett
Quote:
On 2012-06-15 10:37, stoneunhinged wrote:
what's this thread about?


It's about 14 pages too long. Smile
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
kambiz
View Profile
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1129 Posts

Profile of kambiz
Quote:
On 2012-06-15 19:26, mastermindreader wrote:
Once again, acesover, the Catholic Church itself has no problem with the Big Bang Theory (or evolution for that matter). What happened "before" the Big Bang is a metaphysical question to which the Church offers an answer.


Bob, I've noticed you say this multiple times now but where in the Bible does it talk about the big bang theory?

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
Quote:
On 2012-06-15 19:26, mastermindreader wrote:
Once again, acesover, the Catholic Church itself has no problem with the Big Bang Theory (or evolution for that matter). What happened "before" the Big Bang is a metaphysical question to which the Church offers an answer.


I have been in agreement with the evolution theory for a long time now. Just to make it short it goes like this. God created whatever and let it evolve by itself. Then when man appeared he gave him an immortal soul. That is my short version. I could go on and on about this.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
critter
View Profile
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2551 Posts

Profile of critter
Quote:
On 2012-06-15 19:55, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-15 10:37, stoneunhinged wrote:
what's this thread about?


It's about 14 pages too long. Smile


:thumbsup:
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Quote:
On 2012-06-15 20:03, kambiz wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-15 19:26, mastermindreader wrote:
Once again, acesover, the Catholic Church itself has no problem with the Big Bang Theory (or evolution for that matter). What happened "before" the Big Bang is a metaphysical question to which the Church offers an answer.


Bob, I've noticed you say this multiple times now but where in the Bible does it talk about the big bang theory?

Kam

The role and contributions of science are discussed at length in the Catholic Catechism. I never stated that the Bible talked about the Big Bang. (Unless you interpret "Let there be Light" as being entirely consistent with the BB.)

All I've said is that the Catholic Church doesn't find the Big Bang theory to be inconsistent with Scripture or other Catholic teachings.
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27164 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
Quote:
On 2012-06-15 12:04, Slide wrote:
"However the issue remains that mans apperanace is trying to be explained scientifically and no consideration is given by the scientific community that a Supreme Being put the whole thing in motion which obviously includes the appearance of man. "

In order for that to happen there would have to be evidence of that, not conjecture based on a lack of understanding. If I don't understand how a TV works, I can't just say Unicorns built it. I need to base scientfic explaination on evidence.


You're still missing it - the unicorns are running a simulation. The mice told them to.
All praise the cheese!
...to all the coins I've dropped here
The great Gumbini
View Profile
Inner circle
2418 Posts

Profile of The great Gumbini
Bob of course I'm NOT speaking of civil wars that DEVIDE a Nation. I'm talking the complete losing of a Nation that is for lack of any other words removed from the face of the earth (off maps). And then returns to be a Nation again. That has never happened in history with the exception of Israel. Even the US can boast a "return" to a United States after our own civil war. No I'm talking the actual doing away of a Nation and then the returning of that Nation. Israel is THE ONLY one that can boast that. It is actually a very good trivia question. And it should be noted it is in the Bible it would happen.

Pretty interesting developments in Egypt this week huh folks? Well believe me this is just the tip of the unrest we will see in coming weeks. One thing for sure it seems the treaty between Egypt and Israel (that has been in place for over 30 years) will never be the same again. The question now remains who will govern Egypt? Israel is watching and so is God.


Good magic to all,


Eric
The great Gumbini
View Profile
Inner circle
2418 Posts

Profile of The great Gumbini
The problem with the Big Bang Theory (while very amusing) is the "Where did that come from" questions. With the Big Bang you must start with "I don't know" and then you go from there. So the starting point is the only problem. We want to know. With God we do.


Good magic to all,


Eric
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
The Big Bang Theory is science. "Where did that come from?" or "Why?" questions are in the province of metaphysics, religion and philosophy. They are not necessarily incompatible, except for those who insist in the literal interpretation and complete inerrancy of Scripture.

And last I looked, Germany did not cease to exist as a nation because of civil war. They were defeated in war and divided into separate entities entirely. Only with reunification did Germany become a nation again nearly half a century later.
The great Gumbini
View Profile
Inner circle
2418 Posts

Profile of The great Gumbini
But if asked where is Germany you would know correct? With Israel if asked back then you would say "It does not exist anymore". Bob there is a huge difference. Germany was (even in YOUR own words) "divided". Israel was NON EXISTENT.

The Big Bang theory is not only science it is a theory. The question is how did it begin? You must start with "I don't know" in order to begin the theory of the Big Bang. That too is fact. The Bible is clear "In the beginning God..." Science not so clear "In the beginning we don't know what happened..." You see the difference? You have the right to start with "I don't know" however I like my starting point better "God...".


Good magic to all,


Eric
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » A TOUGH QUESTION TO ANSWER.. (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3..7..11..15..19~20~21~22~23..32..40..48..56..64~65~66 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.28 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL