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acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-06-19 00:21, kambiz wrote:
Acesover, I would struggle to lump Christians together (and I suppose Muslims for that matter) since there is only divisions to be seen....you make it sound like the numbers mean something.....Christianity is so divided today, its almost like a million different religions. There is not even coherence on the station of Jesus. that's pretty fundamental I think, if you want to use the numbers to mean anything.. Smile

Kam


Well exactly how would you like to divide them? I am not sure what you are saying. You are saying that Christians believe in Jesus Christ. Is that right or wrong in what you mean by christianity?

Also I am not exactly sure what you mean when you say I make it sound like numbers mean something. Also I am lost when you mention the "station of Jesus". Jesus is the son of God. Are there some christians tht see Jesus differently?. So as I said I am not sure what you mean when you say "station of Jesus." You mention several things that I just do not understand what you mean. It is probably just me. Maybe it is just late at night and I am not thinking correctly.
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kambiz
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Quote:
On 2012-06-19 00:37, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-19 00:21, kambiz wrote:
Acesover, I would struggle to lump Christians together (and I suppose Muslims for that matter) since there is only divisions to be seen....you make it sound like the numbers mean something.....Christianity is so divided today, its almost like a million different religions. There is not even coherence on the station of Jesus. that's pretty fundamental I think, if you want to use the numbers to mean anything.. Smile

Kam


Well exactly how would you like to divide them? I am not sure what you are saying. You are saying that Christians believe in Jesus Christ. Is that right or wrong in what you mean by christianity?

Also I am not exactly sure what you mean when you say I make it sound like numbers mean something. Also I am lost when you mention the "station of Jesus". Jesus is the son of God. Are there some christians tht see Jesus differently?. So as I said I am not sure what you mean when you say "station of Jesus." You mention several things that I just do not understand what you mean. It is probably just me. Maybe it is just late at night and I am not thinking correctly.



I'm not doing the dividing mate Smile, the clear divisions are already there....

http://www.religionfacts.com/christianit......iefs.htm

In fact members of some denominations kill members of other denominations, such is their differences. So how can you clump them as one for your statistical analysis?

Kam
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Payne
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Quote:
On 2012-06-19 00:21, The great Gumbini wrote:
Payne,

While you appear to make points that will be fun to explore, there really remains a question that I would enjoy hearing your answer to. If it's a fact that the Jewish people were not slaves in Egypt and never had an Exodus as described in the Bible, then where in the world did they come from? And where in the world were they all those years?



Nova had a very good episode on this very subject a year or two ago. It really is quite informative and presents an interesting theory on the origins of the Jewish people and the creation and formation of the Bible. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/bib......ets.html

Quote:

Now if you say they were in Egypt then how did they leave? You do believe the Jews existed right?



There is no evidence of them being in Egypt in Biblical times so they didn't have to leave. Yes, I do believe that Jews existed. Just not when and where you do.

Quote:

Do you then believe they got their start as described in the Scriptures?



No, because there isn't sufficient historical or archaeological evidence to support the claims

Quote:

Passover is observed by Jewish people ALL over the world due to the accounts in the Torah. One of the worlds oldest religions keep several feasts and holy days because what the Scriptures say. It seems to me that they take these words very seriously and their lives seem to live these things today. Anyway I'd like to hear your thoughts on these things.



Hindus and Muslims celebrate holidays described in their scripture. Does this make the events they are celebrating true? Romans and Greeks had festivals and feast days as well in honor of their gods. Is Zeus real? I have just as much reason to believe that Passover is celebrating actual events as I do that because that Muslims observe Miraj that Mohamed actually rode a horse into heaven.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Payne
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Quote:
On 2012-06-19 00:37, acesover wrote:

Are there some christians tht see Jesus differently?.



There are 41,000 different denominations of Christianity. So yes, some Christians view Jesus differently

Here are just a few

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Acesover wrote:

Quote:
I have to just smile at you trying to make your point when you actually do the opposite when you say; "Many thousands of years ago a majority of the world's people believed the world was flat. Only a small minority thought otherwise.: Do you know why they thought this? Because the scientific community told them so. Those that believed otherwise were thought to be crazy. So much for the scientific community being the end all.


Actually, I have to smile at your view of history. Thousands of years ago, science, religion, and magic were virtually indistinguishable. There was no "scientific community" such as you refer to.

Most people believed the world was flat simply because that's the way it looked and that's what the priests said.

So much for your conclusion.

But to reiterate my point- Truth isn't determined by a majority vote.
acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-06-19 00:56, kambiz wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-19 00:37, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-19 00:21, kambiz wrote:
Acesover, I would struggle to lump Christians together (and I suppose Muslims for that matter) since there is only divisions to be seen....you make it sound like the numbers mean something.....Christianity is so divided today, its almost like a million different religions. There is not even coherence on the station of Jesus. that's pretty fundamental I think, if you want to use the numbers to mean anything.. Smile

Kam


Well exactly how would you like to divide them? I am not sure what you are saying. You are saying that Christians believe in Jesus Christ. Is that right or wrong in what you mean by christianity?

Also I am not exactly sure what you mean when you say I make it sound like numbers mean something. Also I am lost when you mention the "station of Jesus". Jesus is the son of God. Are there some christians tht see Jesus differently?. So as I said I am not sure what you mean when you say "station of Jesus." You mention several things that I just do not understand what you mean. It is probably just me. Maybe it is just late at night and I am not thinking correctly.



I'm not doing the dividing mate Smile, the clear divisions are already there....

http://www.religionfacts.com/christianit......iefs.htm

In fact members of some denominations kill members of other denominations, such is their differences. So how can you clump them as one for your statistical analysis?

Kam


WE were talking about christinaty not about the idosyncrancies of each religion. The point was that these people are all christians and believe in Jesus Christ. .We were not tqlking about what holiday they celebrate or how they worship, but rather that they worship and believe in Jesus Christ.
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acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-06-19 02:30, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-19 00:37, acesover wrote:

Are there some christians tht see Jesus differently?.



There are 41,000 different denominations of Christianity. So yes, some Christians view Jesus differently

Here are just a few

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations


However they all believe in Jesus Christ. Some believe He was crucified by driving nails into His palms others believe the nails wefr driven into His wrists as not to break any bones, Neither of these beliefs is a stretch and theuy both believe in Jesus Christ. the differences you speak of are minor the important thing is that they believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

When you cite 40,000 denominations of christinaty it would be better said that there are 40,000 different denominations of christinaty with one common belief and that is their belief of Jesus Christ. I think that is more important than a few nit picking things one may find and call differences.
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acesover
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On 2012-06-19 02:53, mastermindreader wrote:
Acesover wrote:

Quote:
I have to just smile at you trying to make your point when you actually do the opposite when you say; "Many thousands of years ago a majority of the world's people believed the world was flat. Only a small minority thought otherwise.: Do you know why they thought this? Because the scientific community told them so. Those that believed otherwise were thought to be crazy. So much for the scientific community being the end all.


Actually, I have to smile at your view of history. Thousands of years ago, science, religion, and magic were virtually indistinguishable. There was no "scientific community" such as you refer to.

Most people believed the world was flat simply because that's the way it looked and that's what the priests said.

So much for your conclusion.

But to reiterate my point- Truth isn't determined by a majority vote.


The times we speak of you are correct in that there was no scientific community. I am not even sure the word science was even in use. However there were scholars and to be honest when doing some researach on this it ws not a theory that was as widely accepted as we are led to believe. Many did not believe in the flat earth theoroy. Many scholars did not agree with it. Sounds like myth busters to me. Smile

Of course that was not what brought this (flalt earth theory) into the discussion in the first place it was my use of the term scientific community of that era and which for all intents and purposes did not exist but rather scholars, which would now be our scientists.
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Jonathan Townsend
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The Greek and Roman pantheons were real for them and an active force in their societies.

A•, your dismissal of another's worldview speaks to the core of who you are.

As regards the flat earth, look up Eratosthenes.

IMHO reading remains fundamental,

J
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acesover
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On 2012-06-19 10:07, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
The Greek and Roman pantheons were real for them and an active force in their societies.

A•, your dismissal of another's worldview speaks to the core of who you are.

As regards the flat earth, look up Eratosthenes.

IMHO reading remains fundamental,

J


Not my dismissal but rather my disagreement with anothers view. There is a vast difference in the two words. IMHO reading remains fundamental Smile


Science: The word "science" came from the Latin word for knowledge: scientia. From the 1200's to until the 1840's science was known as natural philosophy.

So in the times we are speaking of the scientists that you speak of were philosophers not scientists.
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acesover
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The more I think about it I think you are all right. There is no Supreme Being, yes there is a Supreme Being. The Big Bang Theory is wrong, the Big Band Theory is dead on. I looked these posts over and they all seem correct to me they are all dead on extremely correct in their thinking and logic.

So it seems that everyone is correct and there is no wrong answer. Sort of BELIEVE WHAT YU WANT. Yeah that works. I am done here you are all correct in your thoughts and logic including myslef. No one is more right than anyone else everyone is correct. I vote yes if that is the way you want. I will vote no if that is the way you want. I agree. Everyone goes home happy and we all lived happily ever after. Smile
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Quote:
On 2012-06-19 13:43, acesover wrote:
The more I think about it I think you are all right. There is no Supreme Being, yes there is a Supreme Being. The Big Bang Theory is wrong, the Big Band Theory is dead on. I looked these posts over and they all seem correct to me they are all dead on extremely correct in their thinking and logic.

So it seems that everyone is correct and there is no wrong answer. Sort of BELIEVE WHAT YU WANT. Yeah that works. I am done here you are all correct in your thoughts and logic including myslef. No one is more right than anyone else everyone is correct. I vote yes if that is the way you want. I will vote no if that is the way you want. I agree. Everyone goes home happy and we all lived happily ever after. Smile



acesover,

I used to wonder why some people say things a little louder and with more conviction, as if trying to convince themselves. Well, they are. They have a belief....but they don’t have faith. They don’t believe it in their heart. They’re testing it, just saying it out loud.....hoping somebody will believe them, but most importantly, hoping they will believe it them self. When you hoping the evidence comes back and convinces you, you simply don’t have faith.

Bottom line, you need faith to deal with God.

acesover, keep the faith. There is a God.


"Have faith in God. For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be removed and be cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. Therefore I say to you whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them." Jesus Christ, Mark 11:22-24.


Tom
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acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-06-19 15:33, TomBoleware wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-19 13:43, acesover wrote:
The more I think about it I think you are all right. There is no Supreme Being, yes there is a Supreme Being. The Big Bang Theory is wrong, the Big Band Theory is dead on. I looked these posts over and they all seem correct to me they are all dead on extremely correct in their thinking and logic.

So it seems that everyone is correct and there is no wrong answer. Sort of BELIEVE WHAT YU WANT. Yeah that works. I am done here you are all correct in your thoughts and logic including myslef. No one is more right than anyone else everyone is correct. I vote yes if that is the way you want. I will vote no if that is the way you want. I agree. Everyone goes home happy and we all lived happily ever after. Smile



acesover,

I used to wonder why some people say things a little louder and with more conviction, as if trying to convince themselves. Well, they are. They have a belief....but they don’t have faith. They don’t believe it in their heart. They’re testing it, just saying it out loud.....hoping somebody will believe them, but most importantly, hoping they will believe it them self. When you hoping the evidence comes back and convinces you, you simply don’t have faith.

Bottom line, you need faith to deal with God.

acesover, keep the faith. There is a God.


"Have faith in God. For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be removed and be cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. Therefore I say to you whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them." Jesus Christ, Mark 11:22-24.


Tom


Whoa...ha ha. That last post of mine was all sarcasm. I am a true believer and a devout catholic and nothing can change that. Sorry for the misconseption. I am not about to change.
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One question I've always wondered about concerns the cherry picking of the bible that most people do.

People who believe the bible is historical fact and the word of god love to quote parts of the old testament that supports their particular postion and yet things like Don't Eat Pork, don't eat shell fish and many of the items from the Torah are ignored. If it is the word of god, shouldn't you be living like an Orthadox jew only more so? Did god suddenly change his mind about shell fish for christians and not for jews? Was God wrong about shell fish? if what he says in the Torah, is now no good, in the grand scheme of time, it sounds like god changes his mind every few seconds.

So, let me ask the christians: do you eat pork and shellfish even though you are told not to in the bible. And if so, how do you justify ignoring the word of god there and not when it comes to things like homosexuality?
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Quote:

Whoa...ha ha. That last post of mine was all sarcasm. I am a true believer and a devout catholic and nothing can change that.
Sorry for the misconseption. I am not about to change.


I thought so. Smile

And it was me the one not so clear in my post, (sorry bout that)
I think the non believers have more to prove and they are the ones looking for the proof.


Thanks,
Tom
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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2012-06-18 23:22, acesover wrote:...

NO.


IMHO that's dismissal. Zeus is not amused. Smile
And perhaps some who live in onther belief systems are not so amused either. Disagreement can be phrased as a constructive addition to a dialog.
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Quote:
On 2012-06-19 16:55, Slide wrote:
One question I've always wondered about concerns the cherry picking of the bible that most people do.

People who believe the bible is historical fact and the word of god love to quote parts of the old testament that supports their particular postion and yet things like Don't Eat Pork, don't eat shell fish and many of the items from the Torah are ignored. If it is the word of god, shouldn't you be living like an Orthadox jew only more so? Did god suddenly change his mind about shell fish for christians and not for jews? Was God wrong about shell fish? if what he says in the Torah, is now no good, in the grand scheme of time, it sounds like god changes his mind every few seconds.

So, let me ask the christians: do you eat pork and shellfish even though you are told not to in the bible. And if so, how do you justify ignoring the word of god there and not when it comes to things like homosexuality?


Just a quick heads up on the old testament. eatiing pork bck then was not a good idea due to the way it was cooked jusgt as today one must be careful to cook it correctlyor you can become violently ill and sometimes die. Of course this is true for a lot of foods but more so from pork.

As far as mhosexuality is concerned that is up to the individual but I for one find it rather not my style and kind of feel it is how shall I say ...revolting especially when it goes beyond oral betwen men. Need I say more?

I also just find nothing stimulating about two men kissing passionately. If you like and condone this sort of behavior well that is your choice as God gave you free will. I have no problem as to what you like or dislike, just donn't try and convince otherwise as I have my own thoughts on this as I have already stated and there is no room for debate. I have given it much thought because of the times we live in, and I am not about to change my mind. That is not to say I would shun people in the gay community. As a matter of fact one individual that I do business with on a regular basis is gay and we have no problem getting along. We both know how the other feels as far as our sexuality is concerned. Also I am close friends with another individual that goes the other way as we have a common interet in pool. He is an exceptiona;l player and we get along great together and I have gone to several tournaments with him in the past. However my copetitive days of pool are over ow because of my eye as I lost the sight of my left eye and have horrible depth perception.
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acesover
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On 2012-06-19 17:35, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-18 23:22, acesover wrote:...

NO.


IMHO that's dismissal. Zeus is not amused. Smile
And perhaps some who live in onther belief systems are not so amused either. Disagreement can be phrased as a constructive addition to a dialog.


Asked and answered. Some people are not quite as verbose as yourself. A question was asked which could be answered with a yes or a no answer. I answered with NO.

If those other people along with Zeus are not amused that is OK as I was not put here or hired to amuse them. Smile Until then the answer remains, NO.
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And it was a rhetorical question at that!

Amayyyyyzing! Smile
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Well I have never met someone that says the Bible is ALL wrong on every point. You see as Christians we believe the Bible to be God's Word and therefore without error. We do however realize that people will believe the Bible is saying something it is not. Most people I have spoken with about the Bible basically pick and choose what to believe is accurate and what is not. It that case those who do not believe in the Bible may have an advantage. Christians do believe that God's Word contains the truth and is without error and we accept that as fact. Not blindly but by study.

Science is good in a lot of ways. I'm glad God invented it too. I have a hard time with some things scientists say. Plus they don't always agree (At least there is a uniform theme running through the Scriptures) on certain things they study. For example a simple thing like "How old is the earth?" Some say billions of years others millions and still some thousands. Only The Jews and Christians break it down to just over 10,000 years. Science has been wrong about quite a bit of things (agent orange) but it is trying. As a matter of fact science has been wrong about things more than the Bible (wrong here is from the non believes point of view). But then again science does not claim to be right all the time. Science is NOT perfect---God is.


Good magic to all,


Eric
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