We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » A TOUGH QUESTION TO ANSWER.. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3..9..15..21..27..29~30~31~32~33..40..46..52..58..64~65~66 [Next]
ClintonMagus
View Profile
Inner circle
Southwestern Southeast
3999 Posts

Profile of ClintonMagus
Quote:
On 2012-06-10 00:05, acesover wrote:
Would you want there to be a Supreme Being or would you prefetr that we are here by one big accident?

I have thougth about asking this as a two part question. The second part of the question is obvious. WHY?

Not sure if this would be considered a poll or a question.

Anyway here is my answer.

I would opt for the supreme being deal. The reason is that I hope there is more than just this.

Not looking for a debate here just curious about what you would prefer and if possible answer why. Just don't want to start a debate with the why. So don't answer the why if you are going to debate.


Returning to your original post, I would prefer that there be (and believe that there is) a Supreme Being, because I have proven time and time again that I am not qualified to create the beauty I see all around me, nor have I ever run across anyone else who is.
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
Slide
View Profile
Special user
533 Posts

Profile of Slide
"I doubt you are learning anything as you have a closed mind on this topic"

Friend, throughout this thread it is YOU that shown to be closed minded. Anything that challanges your faith generates a knee jerk reaction. If you want to be open minded, read Misquoting Jesus and let me know what you think. I'll even buy you a copy if you like.
Slide
View Profile
Special user
533 Posts

Profile of Slide
Aces,

You don't have to buy the book. Here is an interview with Bart Ehrman: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5052156

"Scholar Bart Ehrman's new book explores how scribes — through both omission and intention — changed the Bible. Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why is the result of years of reading the texts in their original languages.

Ehrman says the modern Bible was shaped by mistakes and intentional alterations that were made by early scribes who copied the texts. In the introduction to Misquoting Jesus, Ehrman writes that when he came to understand this process 30 years ago, it shifted his way of thinking about the Bible. He had been raised as an Evangelical Christian.

Ehrman is also the author of Lost Christianities: The Battle for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew, which chronicles the period before Christianity as we know it, when conflicting ideas about the religion were fighting for prominence in the second and third centuries.

The chairman of the religious studies department at the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill, Ehrman also edited a collection of the early non-canonical texts from the first centuries after Christ, called Lost Scriptures: Books that Did Not Make It into the New Testament."
Pakar Ilusi
View Profile
Inner circle
5715 Posts

Profile of Pakar Ilusi
Kam, you do know that the Muslim Clerics (Sunni and Syiah) regard your Bahai Faith as Apostasy right?

That Bahaullah's claims to Prophethood (or whatever) is regarded as false right?

If you still take from the teachings of Islam (the Quran and Hadith), what do you say to the one billion Muslim Ummah who say you of the Bahai Faith are apostates?
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Slide
View Profile
Special user
533 Posts

Profile of Slide
So Aces,

Here you have a respected biblical scholar who is the chairman of the religious studies department at Chapel Hill. I assume even you would agree to his credentials. He is the one who presented this data. If you are as open minded as you say, please listen to the podcast, read the book and then let me know what you think.
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
Quote:
On 2012-06-20 15:45, Slide wrote:
"In some parts of the world such comments can cause you seriouis bodily harm. However not from a christian."

Ever heard of the Spanish Inquistion? Ever heard of the salem witch trials, ever heard of the holocaust (which by the way, your pope never spoke out against) ? Please, dude, you are so blinded by your faith that you miss the truth.


I am sure if the Pope said something Hilter would have stopped. Smile

Again you bring up history, Salem witch rials. Think of the time and the mind set of the people. I don't think we burned any witches lately. Unless you know something I don't. Quite a while ago. Do you have any idea how many withhes were actually burned and killed? Go ahead take a guess.

You site the Spanish Inquistion...again think of the mind set and the time. We are talking today, now 2012. Not 100's of years ago or 2 thousand years ago if refrencing the bible. Today now, 2012.

Nothing is going to happenif you make fun of the witch trials in Salem today, in fact it is a money maker for the. Again however use the tone on a devout muslim today now. See what happens.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
Quote:
On 2012-06-20 15:50, Slide wrote:
Aces,

You don't have to buy the book. Here is an interview with Bart Ehrman: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5052156

"Scholar Bart Ehrman's new book explores how scribes — through both omission and intention — changed the Bible. Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why is the result of years of reading the texts in their original languages.

Ehrman says the modern Bible was shaped by mistakes and intentional alterations that were made by early scribes who copied the texts. In the introduction to Misquoting Jesus, Ehrman writes that when he came to understand this process 30 years ago, it shifted his way of thinking about the Bible. He had been raised as an Evangelical Christian.

Ehrman is also the author of Lost Christianities: The Battle for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew, which chronicles the period before Christianity as we know it, when conflicting ideas about the religion were fighting for prominence in the second and third centuries.

The chairman of the religious studies department at the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill, Ehrman also edited a collection of the early non-canonical texts from the first centuries after Christ, called Lost Scriptures: Books that Did Not Make It into the New Testament."


Just take this for what it is worth. These men were extremely intelligent. I imagine so is Ehrman. So what is your point?

For a bunch of amoral foul-ups, the Nazis at Nuremberg were an above average group. Four of them, Schacht, Seyss-Inquart, Göring and Dönitz were in the genius range. In fact, Schacht and Seyss-Inquart possessed IQ's equaled by a mere 1 percent of humanity. Unfortunately, Hitler himself was never tested (though some have attempted to estimate his IQ), leading to much speculation about his relative intelligence.

Should we go along with what they taught and believe? They were definitely misguided in their thinking wouldn't you agree?


I am sure I can find hundreds if not thousands of books that disagree with Ehrman. but you know what. I don't care. I am not interested in what they think. I have my own beliefs and am a christian and a devout catholic. I use the bible and get a lot out of it. I read it and try and put it into perspective of living my life and when it was written as to what it means.

Out of curosity what is your belief?
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Slide
View Profile
Special user
533 Posts

Profile of Slide
"Should we go along with what they taught and believe? They were definitely misguided in their thinking wouldn't you agree?"

They aren't biblical scholars. Ehrman is. Well respected. It is not a matter of believing or not beleiving what he says, he has done the scholorship and he is a well known respected scholar. Unless you are saying no scholorship is to be trusted. Then we can throw out all the babies with the bath water and we are back in the dark ages.


"I am sure I can find hundreds if not thousands of books that disagree with Ehrman. but you know what. I don't care. I amnot interested in what they think."

Isn't that the definition of closed mind. Please: do not call me closed minded when you yourself take this attitude.

"Out of curosity what is your belief? " I believe in human creativity.
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
Quote:
On 2012-06-20 15:58, Slide wrote:
So Aces,

Here you have a respected biblical scholar who is the chairman of the religious studies department at Chapel Hill. I assume even you would agree to his credentials. He is the one who presented this data. If you are as open minded as you say, please listen to the podcast, read the book and then let me know what you think.


I think he is well educated,intelligent and means well.

However none of these attributes make me want to bow down to what he believes. I do not see him as an enlightened individual in the ways of God. He is educated and he has formed an opinion. Whether he is right or wrong is another matter entirely. I do not see people following him and callng him the new leader and the light. He is a human being that is falliable just like you and I.

That is what I think. You asked.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Slide
View Profile
Special user
533 Posts

Profile of Slide
"We are talking today, now 2012."

I just gave you the most obvious examples. If you want modern day examples, let me provide these links for you;

http://www.godhatesfags.com/
http://www.shewired.com/soapbox/2012/05/......ing-them
http://www.complex.com/city-guide/2012/0......on-camps
http://notachristian.org/christianatrocities.html
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
Quote:
On 2012-06-20 16:37, Slide wrote:
"Should we go along with what they taught and believe? They were definitely misguided in their thinking wouldn't you agree?"

They aren't biblical scholars. Ehrman is. Well respected. It is not a matter of believing or not beleiving what he says, he has done the scholorship and he is a well known respected scholar. Unless you are saying no scholorship is to be trusted. Then we can throw out all the babies with the bath water and we are back in the dark ages.


"I am sure I can find hundreds if not thousands of books that disagree with Ehrman. but you know what. I don't care. I amnot interested in what they think."

Isn't that the definition of closed mind. Please: do not call me closed minded when you yourself take this attitude.

"Out of curosity what is your belief? " I believe in human creativity.


You believe in human creativity? What exactly is that? I honestly do not know.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Slide
View Profile
Special user
533 Posts

Profile of Slide
"However none of these attributes make me want to bow down to what he believes"

The good thing is scholorship doesn't require you bow down. Look at the evidence and decide. The fact that you won't even listen to what he says, says a lot
Slide
View Profile
Special user
533 Posts

Profile of Slide
"You believe in human creativity? What exactly is that? I honestly do not know. "

Human creativity: the power of the human mind to create works of art, exand knowledge, investigate the world, imagination. Nearly everything you see around you is the result of human creativity.
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1197 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Quote:
On 2012-06-20 14:48, Slide wrote:
"Per the Bible, he changed the rules. Are you a "false parent" if your child has an 8:00 curfew one year and a 9:00 curfew the next year?"

Why would a deity change the rules. Perhaps he has changed the rules again, if he can change the rule so willy nilly. HAHAHA.

Man, that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

How do you know he hasn't changed the rules again? My Darwin was his new change of rules.


If that's your best interpretation of the change in covenants from the Old Testament to the New, as pretty straightforwardly laid out in the Bible, I hope you didn't waste too many of those "nearly ten years" you spent studying religion on Christianity.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Slide
View Profile
Special user
533 Posts

Profile of Slide
Lobo, you crack me up dude.

Tell me how would we know if he changes the rules again?

Seriously: do you actually believe that god "changed the rules" That is YOUR best interpretation? Smile

This is an amusing site.
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
Quote:
On 2012-06-20 16:37, Slide wrote:
"Should we go along with what they taught and believe? They were definitely misguided in their thinking wouldn't you agree?"

They aren't biblical scholars. Ehrman is. Well respected. It is not a matter of believing or not beleiving what he says, he has done the scholorship and he is a well known respected scholar. Unless you are saying no scholorship is to be trusted. Then we can throw out all the babies with the bath water and we are back in the dark ages.


"I am sure I can find hundreds if not thousands of books that disagree with Ehrman. but you know what. I don't care. I amnot interested in what they think."

Isn't that the definition of closed mind. Please: do not call me closed minded when you yourself take this attitude.

"Out of curosity what is your belief? " I believe in human creativity.


No that is not the definition of a closed mind.

Because I am not in a state of flux with my religious belief you feel that is a closed mind. Obviously you have no concept of what religion is. I don't need people to tell me what to believe in. I am not about to change on a daily basis in my religious beliefs and I do not feel that is having a closed mind. I read the bible and have read several other books and pamphlets that contradict the bible and have found them all lacking. Many pick up the homosexauality issue and say see the bible is bad. They believe tht men should have sex with men. However I feel it is unnatural and as I have stated before when it goes beyond oral I find it revolting. I also stated I see nothing stimulating about two men kissing passionatley. Why must every discussion of the bible bring up this point. We can discuss it time and time again. I do not care what you say it is not normal. Unfortunately I do believe that some people are predisposesd this way but again I say it is not normal. That does not make them bad people,just not my style. Your milage may differ. I don't know or care to know if it does. I have a post somewhere in this thread about just this issue and if you read it you will know my feelings on it. If it floats your boat that is fine as God gave you free will to decide.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1197 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Quote:
On 2012-06-20 16:49, Slide wrote:
Lobo, you crack me up dude.

Tell me how would we know if he changes the rules again?

Seriously: do you actually believe that god "changed the rules" That is YOUR best interpretation? Smile

This is an amusing site.


The Biblical view is that obviously, he did. It's explicitly stated. I suspect that the Christian view is that if there were yet another new covenant (actually, I suspect that the first Christian view is that there won't be), then another prophet would be sent.

But if you think it's all so ridiculous, I'm really curious...what were you doing for those "nearly ten years" that you spent studying religion? How many hours a week? Which religions? The change from Mosaic to the blood covenant is a pretty big and pretty explicit; you probably heard about that and dismissed it out of hand in the first hour you studied Christianity...what about the other 9+ years?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27166 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
Quote:
On 2012-06-20 16:39, acesover wrote:...
I think he is well educated,intelligent and means well.

However ...


IMHO still dismissive of others. Smile
...to all the coins I've dropped here
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1197 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Quote:
On 2012-06-20 16:49, Slide wrote:
Lobo, you crack me up dude.


Thanks, by the way! I assure you, it's mutual.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Slide
View Profile
Special user
533 Posts

Profile of Slide
I have to tell you aces and Lobo

When I listen to you guys, to me it is like listening to someone who believes they were abducted by aliens.

By the way, I think god changed the rules on homosexuality. Once the pork was allowed, the gays were right behind.

Lobo: as far as what I studied :I spent a long time studying the Desert Fathers, The Cloud of Unknowing, the collected works of Thomas Merton, the works of Pagels. I studied the gnostic books, I read new translations of the new testament newly translated from the original greek. I studied buddhism, particularly zen and theravadian buddhism. Most of my studies focused on Christianity in its earliest days which coincided and meshed with early buddhism which I am convinced had a common heritage. I sat zen mediation for about 10 years and taught meditation at the local Episcopal church. I spent many years in the Episcopal church and held just about every layman role except deacon.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » A TOUGH QUESTION TO ANSWER.. (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3..9..15..21..27..29~30~31~32~33..40..46..52..58..64~65~66 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.21 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL