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Jeff J. Special user Connecticut 787 Posts |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
I didn't take anything back. You changed my claim when you were asking me to find an example. I said exactly what you've quoted me as saying. That you BELIEVE (pay attention to the words in caps or we'll be here all night) that the statement "There is no God" is a true statement.
You then challenged me to find examples of you saying that you KNOW that there is no God - a claim I did *not* make. As for the claim I *did* make, I was referring to this post of yours: Quote: On 2012-06-14 04:01, Jeff the Unamazing Hack wrote:
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Jeff J. Special user Connecticut 787 Posts |
[quote]On 2012-06-22 04:39, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I didn't take anything back. You changed my claim when you were asking me to find an example. I said exactly what you've quoted me as saying. That you BELIEVE (pay attention to the words in caps or we'll be here all night) that the statement "There is no God" is a true statement. You then challenged me to find examples of you saying that you KNOW that there is no God - a claim I did *not* make. As for the claim I *did* make, I was referring to this post of yours: Quote:
On 2012-06-14 04:01, Jeff the Unamazing Hack wrote: Are you really going to twist words like that? You quoted me as saying "At least I won't get caught in any tricky questions I can't answer since I have no beliefs I'm trying to convince anyone of.", and your reply was: "Here we go again. You've stated in these parts that you believe that the statement "There is no God" is a true statement. So you *do* in fact have a belief." So, you want people to believe that you meant that it was just what I belive, even though you added that I believe it to be a "true statement"? But wait, don't answer yet! When I called you on it, you answered "That's not aimed at you, personally; just an observation.....". What's the big deal? You made a post without thinking and I called you on it. You could have just admitted you were wrong, but instead you go through some convoluted way of saying sorry, yet trying to put the blame on someone else. If you're a troll, continue on with your fun. If you're an atheist just playing around for the sake of discussion, let me in on it. If you consider yourself a real Christian, you need more help than I can give you. Either way, good luck. |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
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On 2012-06-21 21:14, TomBoleware wrote: At one time, didn't you "know for sure" that Santa Claus existed? Ron PS - Hasy anybody answered Bob's questions yet?
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
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On 2012-06-21 19:04, acesover wrote: I guess that's the difference between theists and atheists. Belief shouldn't be based on desire. And only properly conducted scientific investigation can eliminate potential human biases that may corrupt the search for truth. Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Jeff J. Special user Connecticut 787 Posts |
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On 2012-06-22 06:38, R.S. wrote: Belief is a double edged sword. It provides comfort to some, but it also makes certain people feel empowered to impose their beliefs on others. It seems like there is no happy medium people can agree on. |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
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On 2012-06-22 02:44, Jeff the Unamazing Hack wrote: I think many of you here are missing what I mean when I say"BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT". You probably do not remember how this phrase came about in the card game mentioned earlier and under what conditions it was said. I am not going to go into detail on that. Jusat an impossible situation came into play and one individual said BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT. For some clarification I will just tell you what it means. BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT means exactly that. I do not care what you believe. I know what is the truth and if other individuals here do not wish to follow the same beliefs as mine I simply say to them, BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT. I could add I don't care what you beieve but I did not. If you wish to belive we are here as a huge accident and came from nothing theory that is fine with me, if you feel we were put here with a purpose by a Supreme Being as I do that is fine with me. If you feel there is no immortal soul and this is the whole ball of wax that is also fine with me...BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT, it is your right to believe what you want. God gave you free will BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT, make your lifes choices according to your beliefs. BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT just don't try and force your beliefs on me as I do not try and force my beliefs on you. I repeat I am not a missioinary. So BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT. What never ceases to amaze me is those that have no faith are so zealous in trying to make individuals to come over to their way of thinking. That I find hard to understand. It is as if they are missionaries on a completely different mission and that is to destroy the beliefs of those who believe in God and that he bestowed us with an immortal soul and gave us free will. Why is it so important for them to makes us stop believing? Whatever. When I say BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT don't confuse that with my beliefs, for as I have said I am a devout catholic I just am saying you can BELIEVE WHAT YOUWANT. I have also stataed I will answer questions asked in a civil tone. I will ignore those questions asked in a mocking condesending manner by thos who wish to show how clever and sophosticated they are by the way they ask the question. As I said it is as if they believe, that not believing in God is a sign of sophistication and knowledge and the In Thing. To those I say, get over it. However I wish they would stop asksing and just BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT. Becausse they are not asking for enlightment but rather to provoke an arguent not a discussion. No answer will sufice. I am not responsible for their soul. There are missionaries for that. BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On 2012-06-22 06:38, R.S. wrote: Please don't extrapolate a single comment from one person to all theists. To do so isn't . . . well . . . very scientific. |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3162 Posts |
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Tom, Oh I'm sure I probably did believe in Santa at Christmas time way back then. But that didn't last long and even as a child I knew there was a big difference in the two. Most adults (and children too) compare Santa to Elves, Superman, and other Storybook Characters, not God. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Dreadnought Special user Athens, Georgia 836 Posts |
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On 2012-06-22 03:42, Jeff the Unamazing Hack wrote: Funny how every single religious thread here, as far as I have seen, has been started by Atheists who want to either convert or ridicule the people of faith. You people seem to spend a lot of time worrying about something you don't believe in. Peace and Godspeed.
Peace
"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..." Scott Would you do anything for the person you love? |
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Dreadnought Special user Athens, Georgia 836 Posts |
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On 2012-06-22 03:13, Jeff the Unamazing Hack wrote: Then why knock on the freaking door? Peace and Godspeed.
Peace
"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..." Scott Would you do anything for the person you love? |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On 2012-06-22 06:07, Jeff the Unamazing Hack wrote: Tell you what, if you DON'T believe it's a true statement, just flat-out say so, and I'll drop it. In the meantime, though, YEAH, When you write that if someone says "There is no God," that person is telling the truth (your words), then I take that to mean it's a true statement. That's kind of what "telling the truth" means. Quote:
But wait, don't answer yet! When I called you on it, you answered "That's not aimed at you, personally; just an observation.....". No, I didn't. The statement, "That's not aimed at you, personally; just an observation" was addressed to BOB. Take it out of the equation of my discussion with you. That's why the post it appears in includes quoted text of BOB'S. "That's not aimed at you, personally" was about my statement "Are you actually going to let a thing like that stop you," to which Bob replied with a string of question marks. It had NOTHING to do with our (yours and my) discussion. Quote:
You made a post without thinking and I called you on it. No, I didn't. I made a post after having thought about it, back it up with exact from you, and you called me not on the post I made, but on a changed version of it. You "called me" on accusing you having said that you KNOW the statement "God does not exist" is true. I never said you did. Quote:
You could have just admitted you were wrong, but instead you go through some convoluted way of saying sorry, yet trying to put the blame on someone else. I'm not wrong, I'm not apologizing, and I'm not blaming anyone for anything. Quote:
If you're a troll, continue on with your fun. I'm starting to think this is what I should have said to you in the first place. You're an atheist, but you contort yourself like a circus performer to not be held to the claim that you believe "There is no God" to be true (not a statement that bothers any atheist I know), you ignore very simple and direct posts, and you constantly mischaracterize my position. Other than that, though... Quote:
If you're an atheist just playing around for the sake of discussion, let me in on it. You suggested that I'm a Christian a number of times. At least now you're asking. I have stated EXPLICITLY that I am not several times in response to your posts. Most recently: Quote:
On 2012-06-22 03:57, LobowolfXXX wrote: It's as silly as if I responded to your posts by saying, "Jeff, for a Christian, you sure seem to..." I have long given up on being understood on most of my simple declarative sentences here, but can you at least try to get this one: [b]I AM NOT A THEIST. I an am agnostic. By this, I mean that I do not find either the position "There is a God" or the position "There is no God" to be markedly more persuasive than the other. What I said was very, very simple. It was in response to your statement that (unlike Christians) you have no beliefs that you're trying to convince anyone of. My response, literally, is as easy as 1...2...3: 1. You believe that God does not exist. (SOURCE YOUR statement that someone who says "There is no God" has made a true statement.) 2. This belief is not based on proof. (Pretty widely accepted that it hasn't been PROVEN that God does not exist) 3. You seem to want to convince people of this belief (Just my overall impression from the totality of your posts on the topic). That's it. Literally, 1...2...3.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
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On 2012-06-22 03:30, mastermindreader wrote: And "strong theism" isn't?
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
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On 2012-06-22 11:45, Dreadnought wrote: Then you obviously didn't see the starting post of this one. acesover began in by posting a question of a religious nature. In fact I seem to remember most of the now deleted threads with a religious bent were nearly all started by theists. Just another example of how two people looking at the same data can come to two completely different conclusions.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2012-06-22 12:08, Payne wrote: Well, I was asked about the difference between atheism and agnosticism. But since you ask, there have been many well reasoned arguments in favor of theism. The works of CS Lewis come to mind. On the other hand, I don't think there really are very many "strong atheists" around. But that is because of the definition I use. Based on your arguments, which I don't necessarily disagree with, I would consider you to be a "strong agnostic" and not a "strong atheist." Good thoughts, Bob |
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Dreadnought Special user Athens, Georgia 836 Posts |
Bob's right. I know very few strong atheists. Most are simply agnostic.
Peace and Godspeed.
Peace
"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..." Scott Would you do anything for the person you love? |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
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On 2012-06-20 19:36, kambiz wrote: "Baha'u'llah says He is the fulfillment of ALL prophecies from every Divine Teacher since the beginning of Abrahamic religious commencement." MUSLIMS CLEARLY DENOUNCE THIS STATEMENT. Muhammad is THE fulfillment of ALL prophecies from every Divine Teacher TO THEM. How do you reconcile this? A billion Muslims follow the Quran and Hadith but adamantly condemn the Bahai Faith. Who goes to Paradise(Jannah) and who goes to Hell(Nar)? One side MUST GO TO HELL as is dictated in the Quran and Hadith, that YOU hold on to.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On 2012-06-22 12:47, mastermindreader wrote: Before I got married - some 33 years ago - my wife wanted me to read Lewis' Mere Christianity, and I did. When I'd finished it I had this uneasy feeling that there was a flaw in Lewis' argument. I didn't object to his conclusions, but there was something missing; he'd overlooked a step. I don't know what it was, and I didn't go to the trouble of rereading the book and mapping it out (not much to be gained by doing that), but whatever it was, it was subtle (and, I suspect, would fly past most people; as I say, it only gave me an uneasy feeling). I agree that CS Lewis is a good example, but even his best argument is flawed. |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On 2012-06-22 12:14, Payne wrote: No, it isn't. |
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