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critter
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Quote:
On 2012-06-24 16:34, kambiz wrote:
Yet I think you've bashed every single concept of the Baha'i faith that I have raised on every thread....

I'm not worried as long as there's some explanation behind your thinking, but you choose not to elaborate at all....

kam


As you generally answer questions with "go read something" I figured that it was okay for me to do the same. But you don't usually ask me specific questions, so there's the problem.


So "why do I think it sounds awful?" is a whole new question that you didn't ask me before so I can try and answer that one, and would've before if you'd only asked.

Well, first off- I'm not saying it is awful, only that it sounds awful.
A waiting period of a year before you can get a divorce? Yuck.
I mean, we have a waiting period here just because one has to wait for a court date. It's a few months, and I found it to be awful too.

For some people, waiting periods, counselling, trial seperations, etc, are a good idea. They might be able to work it out.

For others, they know it's over. In their case, it's prolonged agony.
Many people know when it's time to move on so why not let them?
And, on the extreme end, what about spousal abuse?

So it can be good for some people, but as a mandate for everyone- "It sounds awful."

PS- I've never bashed any of the Baha'i concepts you've brought up, only the idea of having them forced on me.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
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critter
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Quote:
On 2012-06-24 16:41, kambiz wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 16:35, critter wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 16:24, kambiz wrote:
Ok, mate, whatever you say....you say it sounds awful, then you say it is what it sounds like i.e awful.


See below.

Quote:
You made the comment. I was asking you to elaborate what you found awful about it?


You did not ask that. You asked me to elaborate on what the concept is, not why I didn't like it.

Quote:

You still refuse to answer my question....



Wrong, I answered the question you actually asked. Now you're moving the goalposts.

Quote:

.....and then you tell me I have a twisted opinion of you? Go figure lol

Kam


See above.


Lol.....far out mate.....

critter, what do you "THINK" this concept is, is pretty clear in that it is asking for your "understanding."

What was the thought process that made you conclude that it is awful?

It's not rocket science.....

I leave you in peace Smile

Kam


See above.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
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Critter, we're in a forum, no-ones forcing anything on anyone

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
Steve_Mollett
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Off-topic question: Why does Kam's avatar look like an old charwoman who just saw a flasher?
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
critter
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I said the "idea" of having them forced on me. As in the hypothetical Kamtopia that you frequently allude to where everyone must follow Baha'i law. I want a chance to vote on my laws, individually.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
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On 2012-06-24 16:50, critter wrote:
I said the "idea" of having them forced on me. As in the hypothetical Kamtopia that you frequently allude to where everyone must follow Baha'i law. I want a chance to vote on my laws.


Actually, Baha'i law is not 'enforced' in the classic sense; the Baha'i utopia would be something that evolves naturally, rather like Lenin's concept of the "New Soviet Man."

In other words, a pipe dream.
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The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
kambiz
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All Baha'i laws are flexible to allow for "extreme situations"

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
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On 2012-06-24 16:49, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Off-topic question: Why does Kam's avatar look like an old charwoman who just saw a flasher?



Lol.....HEY!!!!!

I am a charwoman
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
kambiz
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Quote:
On 2012-06-24 16:53, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 16:50, critter wrote:
I said the "idea" of having them forced on me. As in the hypothetical Kamtopia that you frequently allude to where everyone must follow Baha'i law. I want a chance to vote on my laws.


Actually, Baha'i law is not 'enforced' in the classic sense; the Baha'i utopia would be something that evolves naturally, rather like Lenin's concept of the "New Soviet Man."

In other words, a pipe dream.


After 160 years of existence Steve, the pipe dream is currently a nearing 10million person reality Smile

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
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Quote:
On 2012-06-24 16:56, kambiz wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 16:49, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Off-topic question: Why does Kam's avatar look like an old charwoman who just saw a flasher?



Lol.....HEY!!!!!

I am a charwoman

Are there a lot of flashers in Perth?
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
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Yes, it's part of the local law here.....a flasher a day keeps the doctor away

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
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Quote:
On 2012-06-24 16:57, kambiz wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 16:53, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 16:50, critter wrote:
I said the "idea" of having them forced on me. As in the hypothetical Kamtopia that you frequently allude to where everyone must follow Baha'i law. I want a chance to vote on my laws.


Actually, Baha'i law is not 'enforced' in the classic sense; the Baha'i utopia would be something that evolves naturally, rather like Lenin's concept of the "New Soviet Man."

In other words, a pipe dream.


After 160 years of existence Steve, the pipe dream is currently a nearing 10million person reality Smile

Kam

Woo-Hoo!
When it gets to EVERYONE, let me know.
Oh wait, if it got there in my lifetime I WOULD know.
It wouldn't include ME, though.
PIPE DREEEEEAAAAAAM! Smile
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The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
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On 2012-06-24 17:00, kambiz wrote:
Yes, it's part of the local law here.....a flasher a day keeps the doctor away

Kam

Ah, so doctors in Aussieland are afraid of flashers! Interesting.
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The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
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That sounds like YOUR pipe dream buddy Smile

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
Steve_Mollett
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No, I don't smoke the dream tar; it's just the absinthe doing its evil work. Smile
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The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
critter
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I thought the avatar was a young person recoiling at "bad touch."
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
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On 2012-06-24 10:24, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 09:11, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-24 00:53, mastermindreader wrote:
Acesover wrote:

Quote:
I already have a belief so I am not open to any more.


That comes pretty close to summarizing the difference between science and religion.


Not realy.

Wothout a Supreme Being science would not be possible. So science is dependent on a Supreme Being and not the other way around. Science cannot create a Supreme Being but a Supreme Being Can created what we term science. That is the difference. Without the Supreme Being you are back to the someting from nothing theory and that is why science endears this theory. It does away with the Supreme Being. Science forever wants to taste the forbidden fruit and play God. Do not mistake the forbidden fruit as researach and advancement for God gave us that potential, but rather wanting to know all that God knows and become Godlike, that is the forbidden fruit. Man was not satisfied in the Garden of Eden with no maladies. He wanted to know more and become just like God. Just as the angels fell so did man. The one thing he was asked not to persue is what caused his downfall, "The Forbidden Fruit". Questioning and discussisng The Forbidden Fruit would be a topic in of itself.


So where do you draw the line between research and advancement and wanting to "know all that God knows"? Maybe eradicating smallpox was going to far, because after all, the smallpox virus is one of God's creations, and he certainly had a purpose for it in mind when he designed it, yet we have virtually eliminated it from the face of the earth. In your opinion, should scientists stop searching for vaccines/cures for other diseases, like, say, the Ebola virus or the AIDS virus?

Would you "forbid" your own children from knowing all that you know? Most parents want their children to grow up with MORE of an education than they had, and more of an opportunity to be successful. It's silly to think that an all-loving being wants to stunt the progress of his own children. We are still just human, so matter how much we learn we will never be "Godlike."

No pure knowledge is "forbidden." It's the application of that knowledge that has consequences. The universe is ours to explore.

Ron


You have nailed it. Research, knowledge! The magic words, research and knowledge. There is absoutely nothing wrong with research and what comes from it, that being knowledge. However research which produced knowledge of the Big Bang Theory is at once used to say...There we found it, there is no God there is no Supreme Being it all started with the Big Bang deal. Until you ask yourself what started? Are we sure about the Big BAng Theory? If so Does it eliminate God? The answer to both of these questions is NO.

Man is not satisfied with his discoveries which were always there, because God allowed them. He must say now I have found the secret of the universe. I am on equal footing with this so called God who now I know does not exist becasue I found out the truth. We are here because of one big accident. There is no God. I am God, Man is God, Science is God. Besides even if there is God I am as smart as He is now because I know all. I am the smartest thing in the universe and know all the answers. Before man gets carried away with his own self importance let me just say, wrong, wrong, wrong. Believe what you want.

If it makes you happy that there is no God or if you believe there is God and you are as all knowing as he is than be happy and believe what you want. If you thnk man and science can find the answers to the creation then fine, believe it. Believe what you want. Let me say this to all you atheists. There is nothng that can convience you that there is a God. Let me further add there is nothing that you can say that will convience me that there is not God. Now are we both closed minded or is it just ones point of view that makes the other closed minded?

Believe what you want. Who cares? Certainly not all those who believe in God. They would like you to believe in God, but they don't have a stake in it if you don't. With the exception of a few missionaries that want to just bang their head aganist a wall and try and convience you, most people just don't care what you believe. However I just want to add this. It seems to upset atheists that we believe in God. I don't know why it bothers them. They are like antimissionaries trying to convience you that there is no God. Let it go.

So in answering your question I am just saying there is no line to be drawn to research and advancement. But if you think that further researach is going to provide you with answers that proves there is no God you are on a hopless quest.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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On 2012-06-24 17:18, critter wrote:
I thought the avatar was a young person recoiling at "bad touch."


NO. I could never figure out the Avatar.

But the Char Woman, Flasher explanation NAILED IT.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
R.S.
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On 2012-06-24 11:11, TomBoleware wrote:
Hey Ron,

Sorry I suddenly dropped out on the Santa Claus talk. Had to leave for the weekend. (A little trip to the North Pole. lol)

I'm afraid you never going to find God because you looking in all the wrong places. God is not in the magic trick business and you seem to be just looking for a puff of smoke.

Just because something can be explained doesn't mean God didn't have a hand in it. Not saying God can't do, (and occasionally does) do miracles, but why should he. Why can't a God just connect all the dots without making a big scene? So what if science can explain it, big deal, it still happened.

If I pray for help with getting a swimming pool in my back yard, I don't expect God to come dig it himself. Or to send mystery men dressed in white clothes to come dig it for free. I'm just looking for help and if I get it in a somewhat normal way after praying for it, shouldn't I still feel blessed?

I want bore you with my rags to riches story, but my life didn't turn around until I partnered up with Jesus. You might say I wasted the first 40 years of my life, but I've been blessed these last 25. I have everything I want in life. Sure it can all be explained away by simply saying the power of prayer is great, it works because science already proved it, but I would be stupid to not give God some of the credit when he was the one I was praying too. I thank God every day for all the many blessing he has given me. Why shouldn't I.


Four years ago I had a major heart attack, they thought I had 100 percent blockage on one side. The doctors looked into doing surgery, but quickly discovered it had repaired itself. They didn't do surgery, they sent me home. Yes, hearts have rerouted themselves before, and I do seem to be lucky, but still, who's to say God didn't have a little hand in it. Not me.

I could give you story after story, but none involves a cloud of smoke, so therefore they don't count. Huh?

Tom


I am not "looking" for a god anymore than you are looking for Pink Flying Unicorns on Jupiter or Leprechauns. Why should I? And according to your book, God IS in the magic trick business (occasionally).

"Sure it can all be explained away by simply saying the power of prayer is great, it works because science already proved it"

Really? Then why won't God heal amputees? I'm sure many devout Christian amputees (and/or their devout friends and relatives) have prayed for a "miracle" regrowth of their amputated limbs, yet God ignores them. Why? Does prayer only "work" for things that may go into remission or heal themselves over time? And why pray at all, since 1) God already knows our desires, and 2) he has a plan, so who are we to coerce him into changing that plan?

Anyway, check this out...

http://www.skepdic.com/prayer.html
"Despite the fact that there is compelling scientific evidence that healing prayer is ineffective, billions of people turn to prayer at the first sign of distress. Prayer has a comforting effect and it makes people feel empowered in the face of nature's indifference to their suffering. The belief in the healing power of prayer seems to be based on little more than communal reinforcement and selective thinking: people ignore all the times that events don't coincide with their prayerful desires and they call attention to the times that events fall in line with the intentions of their prayers (confirmation bias)."


As far as your good fortunes, why don't you credit yourself for your successes? Are you that undisciplined or weak minded that you cannot succeed on your own? And what about all the highly successful atheists out there? Or followers of other religions? Who is helping them?


"I could give you story after story, but none involves a cloud of smoke, so therefore they don't count. Huh?"

Sorry, but lots of poor quality evidence does not add up to strong evidence.

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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On 2012-06-24 17:26, acesover wrote:
You have nailed it. Research, knowledge! The magic words, research and knowledge. There is absoutely nothing wrong with research and what comes from it, that being knowledge. However research which produced knowledge of the Big Bang Theory is at once used to say...There we found it, there is no God there is no Supreme Being it all started with the Big Bang deal. Until you ask yourself what started? Are we sure about the Big BAng Theory? If so Does it eliminate God? The answer to both of these questions is NO.

Man is not satisfied with his discoveries which were always there, because God allowed them. He must say now I have found the secret of the universe. I am on equal footing with this so called God who now I know does not exist becasue I found out the truth. We are here because of one big accident. There is no God. I am God, Man is God, Science is God. Besides even if there is God I am as smart as He is now because I know all. I am the smartest thing in the universe and know all the answers. Before man gets carried away with his own self importance let me just say, wrong, wrong, wrong. Believe what you want.

If it makes you happy that there is no God or if you believe there is God and you are as all knowing as he is than be happy and believe what you want. If you thnk man and science can find the answers to the creation then fine, believe it. Believe what you want. Let me say this to all you atheists. There is nothng that can convience you that there is a God. Let me further add there is nothing that you can say that will convience me that there is not God. Now are we both closed minded or is it just ones point of view that makes the other closed minded?

Believe what you want. Who cares? Certainly not all those who believe in God. They would like you to believe in God, but they don't have a stake in it if you don't. With the exception of a few missionaries that want to just bang their head aganist a wall and try and convience you, most people just don't care what you believe. However I just want to add this. It seems to upset atheists that we believe in God. I don't know why it bothers them. They are like antimissionaries trying to convience you that there is no God. Let it go.

So in answering your question I am just saying there is no line to be drawn to research and advancement. But if you think that further researach is going to provide you with answers that proves there is no God you are on a hopless quest.


It amazes me that you have participated in all these threads, yet you still post such an innacurate and misleading representation of science, the BB theory, and atheists.

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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