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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts |
And just what makes you believe any of that story?
How about stating your faith-based assertions with citations of the relevant scriptures so we don't confuse you with someone who believes they have direct access to a place called heaven and complete knowledge of every person there?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Because it is categorically stated in the Bahai Writings.
One must understand that the Bahai Writings are extremely voluminous and the Word of God is authoritatively interpreted to aid unity of understanding. There is little room for misunderstandings. It is the main reason why the Bahai community is so tightly united globally Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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Jeff J. Special user Connecticut 787 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 03:48, kambiz wrote: I can't really compare your religion with Scientology because I'm not familiar with it, but if I may, I'd like to explain some other religions and perhaps you can tell me how yours differs. Scientology has an alien being who populated Earth by dumping excess aliens into volcanoes trillions of years ago. Those in the religion who can't afford to learn about the space alien need only dress up like sailors and recieve "punishment" by some not so mascline looking fellows with little to no pay. They WILL howver possess supernatural powers after a point. Christians aren't nearly as silly. They have an all knowing, all powerful being who created 2 people who he used to trick into eating some fruit by a fast-talking snake so He could then condemn all all future mankind to sin, only to "forgive" them later by sending his only son on a suicide mission using a teenage virgin as the transport system, so he could "die", and awake a while later to rule over the universe. Mormon's HAve a prophet who was had some run in with the law a couple hundred years ago until an angel ppeared before him and showed him where to find "special" gold plates written in a language that never existed, but that was no problem. The angel provided him with magic rocks he could put in his hat to read them. The rligion prospered and in 1978 God decided in that black people weren't really put on Earth as a curse from God, so they let them rule over their own planets like the white Mormons after they died. When I have time someday, I'll tell you about the "silly religions". But seriously, one thing all religions have in common is that if you don't drink the Kool-Aid, you're going to burn. From what I hear, Bha'i is also based on fear. I'm not knocking your religion. I think they are all silly. The reason for my extra long rant today is because I'm officially on vacation for the Summer starting today. No more work until November. Woohoo |
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
No mate, you can mock the religions you think you know about, but I can categorically tell you that the Bahai faith is not in any way based on fear.
It's based on justice and hard work. The rewards for your hard work will be reaped by the outcomes of that hard work. You put the hours in you get the consequential rewards. You don't put the hours in you don't get punished, I repeat you DO NOT get punished, but don't expect any rewards either. It's how it works in this life and it's how it works in the afterlife too...it's rationality applied to spirituality Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
All religion is based on fear.
Fear of what happens after death.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Wrong Pakar, 100% wrong
Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 09:15, kambiz wrote: I stand by my assertion.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
"All" religions are not based on fear, and "all" religions do not condemn non-adherents to hellfire.
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
If I recall correctly, adherents of the Amida Buddha in Japan believe that everyone goes to heaven whether they're a believer or not. I think I read that in a Stephen R Turnbull book.
Anton LaVey (so he might just be lying) wrote that the Babylonians (I think) believed that God was all-loving and all-forgiving and Shaitan (Satan) was the ruler of Earthly and Earthly pleasures, so since you were getting into Heaven anyways it was your job to indulge your Earthly pleasures to please Shaitan while you're here. Anyways, some different perspectives there.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-06-06 21:44, Steve_Mollett wrote: From a different thread. But good.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 09:47, Pakar Ilusi wrote: I will hand on heart assure you that my son, at the age of 9 has only heard the word "hell" from his Anglican school. His entire spiritual education from his parents has revolved around capacity building in an environment of mutual support and encouragement, where his failings are USED as learnings to provide positive feedback for daily reflection, and consequent action for the love of his fellow humans he interacts with daily. No fear of punishment EVER, just motivation to reap the rewards of being the source of joy to his fellow school friends, allowing his heart to burn with loving-kindness to all that cross his path. His journey started as a baby and it's second nature for him now to be a solace to the sad, and a humble servant to his friends and detractors. This is the tip of the iceberg for him, I'm confident his journey will be brighter than mine, and his children's journeys will be brighter than his, as the process of learning and reflecting intensifies and becomes more efficient from generation to generation Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
In Soto Zen we try to focus mainly on the practical. Dwelling on the abstract concept of death is impractical, so we try not to do it. Or, maybe we try to not try not to do it, but we don't want to do it, but want to not want... too much... Zen is ****in' weird.
But, like I said, most Soto Zen practitioners are dismissive of all of that reincarnation business that the Thais and Tibetans spend so much time on. There's some stuff written about that but I don't have all of my books with me. A lot of it has to do with perspective. I think one monk in a story was asked about what happened after death and he said he didn't know because he wasn't dead yet. That more or less sums it up.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
You all are hell bent on this hell thing... (pun wholly intended... )
It's not that fear I'm referring to as the source of "religions". From Steve_Mollett's post... One psychological theory on the development of religion is that faith in a higher intelligence with a higher purpose helps to: A. Reduce the fear of our own mortality.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
As a parent Pakar, I have not related the link between death and goodly deeds to my children. Eventually they will work it out I'm sure.
The reality is that there is action, and there is reaction. You be the source of joy to others, be a shoulder of support for the downtrodden, knock on an old persons home to ask if she wants any shopping done for her, then the consequences to these simple actions can be seen NOW. There's no need to introduce our mortality to the education being given. Mortality will take care of itself when you have gone through this life enjoying every moment of it just being selfless and giving, and cherishing the eyes of those who you serve, with no seeking of recompense, just because of love and being truthful to our inner calling.... Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
You still misunderstand my point.
Religions are made up to comfort our inherent fear of the unknown after death. (Amongst other things.) All of them speak of that realm that we cannot prove (or disprove) so we have some reassurance there is something good after this life. You will always have detractors in certain faiths (Soto Zen for instance ), but all religion is based on this reassurance. Reassurance needs a fear to reassure against. Thus my assertion that religions are born of fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of death, fear not knowing why bad things happen to good people... But fear nonetheless. Now if you don't fear death anymore Kam, it is because of your faith. No? But I digress...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 10:39, Pakar Ilusi wrote: But mortality pretty much means "You gonna' die!" So I think you can see how my post is relevant. That post also wasn't about Hell, it was about not dwelling on stuff we don't know and that has no practical use in the life that we do know. *Edit* Nevermind. Hadn't seen the post right before this. ****! I have to get back to work!
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 11:01, critter wrote: It wasn't directed to you Soto Zenners really... That hell thing. But religions all started to reassure us that there is meaning somewhere somehow. That fear of the unknown is my point that all religion is based on fear.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
I suppose there are teachings in classical Buddhism that the fear of death stems from attachment to this world and this body, so to remove that fear we have to remove that attachment. So, yeah, kind of. That's not why I got into Buddhism and I don't think about it much, but I guess the notion is in there.
Now I have to get back to work, stop making me think about stuff!
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 11:13, critter wrote: Stop thinking about stuff.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-06-14 10:57, Pakar Ilusi wrote: Hi Pakar. To be honest with you there is very little, if any focus on death in the Bahai teachings. The reality is that the Bahai Writings focus so much on cherishing the services one renders in this life, that death is a detraction, if even thought about. I'll be blunt, but hopefully submit this humbly, over the past 8-10 years, every single moment of my life has been dedicated to education, service and development. To see the transformations I have witnessed, to see the joy in people's eyes who thought they were the forgotten ones in society, to accompany people to become agents for social action and development has occupied so much of my time, that fear of anything is time wasted on negatives. Why have fear of anything, it's so negative, when there is so much positive to be involved with in this realm. Death will take care of itself. I know I have a soul and I know I'm striving daily to adorn it with deeds of increasing lustre.. Mortality and fear are the least focused components of the Bahai Faith. I'm building a better world, I will die in that Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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