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Pete Biro
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1933 - 2018
18558 Posts

Profile of Pete Biro
Sad to lose Martin. He was a very long time, old friend. Interestingly, his Smoking gimmick was the best.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
billappleton
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Inner circle
Los Gatos, California
1154 Posts

Profile of billappleton
I recently purchased a few stock supplies and was amazed at how some of them had changed. Nobody could use some of that junk. There were a few other items that were of the original quality I expected.

So the knock-offs hurt the buyer, too. Seems to me the leverage point here is the US Distributors. I wish there was a way for the buyers to provide more feedback about what was junk, what is stolen, etc.
Alexander Wells
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Veteran user
311 Posts

Profile of Alexander Wells
How about starting an association of magic dealers (guild, society, club)? There could be a code of conduct which includes a commitment not to sell knock offs. If someone spots a knock off, reports it and the creator of the effect backs the grievance then the dealer is expelled from the organisation/socitety.

Membership of the society would have commercial benefits as the more ethical amongst us would favour or exclusively patronise those establishments.
It could operate in a similar way to the Magic Circle or AMA.

Sound like a plan?
magicians
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Inner circle
Teacher and Legend
2898 Posts

Profile of magicians
Quote:
On 2012-06-18 08:09, Neal Alexander wrote:
How about starting an association of magic dealers (guild, society, club)? There could be a code of conduct which includes a commitment not to sell knock offs. If someone spots a knock off, reports it and the creator of the effect backs the grievance then the dealer is expelled from the organisation/socitety.

Membership of the society would have commercial benefits as the more ethical amongst us would favour or exclusively patronise those establishments.
It could operate in a similar way to the Magic Circle or AMA.

Sound like a plan?

The magic dealers association had a plan where they would police their own industry. But, in truth, it was the fox guarding the hen-house.
Most of the knock-off dealers were the members.
I went to an MDA dealers show in Fort Lauderdale years ago and bought a book with me on the Super-gel. I gave samples to 4 dealers, and within weeks, each and EVERY dealer I submitted it to, came out with an in-house booklet on it.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
Alexander Wells
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Veteran user
311 Posts

Profile of Alexander Wells
What about a magic producer/inventor's co-op then? Get a bunch of independent producers to band together to get lower distribution costs etc..

Failing this, the best solution seems to be going direct to the producer and cut out the middle men altogether. A lot of the better props are easier to obtain directly from the producer anyway.

If you can't play fair then maybe you shouldn't get to play at all?
Illucifer
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Inner circle
1394 Posts

Profile of Illucifer
You're not likely going to get China to stop this sort of thing. They make knock-off iPhones and iPads. Hell, they even have entire knock-off Apple Stores. Good luck getting them to care about something at the economic scale of a magic trick.
It's all in the reflexes.
AnthonyJD
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Veteran user
Long Island , N.Y.
338 Posts

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In my opinion the only way around this is for all of the magic community to stick together and only support each other from the source. I know from speaking to George Robinson that some will always buy cheaper either because they have to or to just save. I may be an amateur but I never buy anything with a "hallmark " name other than the source. Pete , and all others who produce high quality effects and help to elevate the art keep up the good work , serious magicians appreciate it.
Bill Hegbli
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Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
22840 Posts

Profile of Bill Hegbli
Just seen on Ebay the Proper Ghostly Linking Finger Rings from China is now only $35.00 for a $695.00 miracle. Can you believe it!

What is so weird, is that the Himber linking finger ring with duplicate ring is $25.00. So for $10 more dollars they include the box, and pen.
Mr. Mystoffelees
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Inner circle
I haven't changed anyone's opinion in
3621 Posts

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Quote:
On 2012-07-03 22:25, AnthonyJD wrote:
In my opinion the only way around this is for all of the magic community to stick together and only support each other from the source. I know from speaking to George Robinson that some will always buy cheaper either because they have to or to just save. I may be an amateur but I never buy anything with a "hallmark " name other than the source. Pete , and all others who produce high quality effects and help to elevate the art keep up the good work , serious magicians appreciate it.

I agree, and I feel there is a group who follow exactly what you do- I know that I am saving up for a Dean's Box because I want the real thing from the real source. It is unfortunate that there seems always to be a market of those who think otherwise- else the goods wouldn't be made. The consumer controls the manufacturing.

Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
Pete Biro
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1933 - 2018
18558 Posts

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I was told today that "culturally" in China ripping off and counterfeiting is not considered a bad thing. So, we are screwed. Sad thing about the CHEAP priced Porper Linking Finger Rings is, as Porper told me, "They don't know the real secret to how the inner parts are made, and their rings don't work right and don't last very long."
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Bill Hegbli
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Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
22840 Posts

Profile of Bill Hegbli
So Pete, are you saying the Chinese rip offs last as long as the attention span of todays buyers. As that is all it seems from being on the Café, is todays buyer is only interested in knowing the secret and looking at the props. I guess that may be worth $35.00.
Vlad_77
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Inner circle
The Netherlands
5829 Posts

Profile of Vlad_77
Mr. Biro,

Perhaps this is a long shot, but would it be worth your time to file a complaint to eBay? In my dealings with eBay - and I hasten to add that my dealings had little to do with the plight you are experiencing - a solution MAY be possible. Sad to say - and we all know this - there are Western makers of magic that have done and still do the same thing. Viking Magic have been taken to the cleaners a number of times.

Namaste,
Vlad
Pete Biro
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1933 - 2018
18558 Posts

Profile of Pete Biro
I believe Porper has gone this route, the only trouble the ebay sellers are often just one-shot buyers that want to dump what they bought. The manufacturers sell off their websites and to some small-time dealers.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Acolophon
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New user
7 Posts

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Pete,
Like many people I feel for you. Why can't some people realise that there is nothing in this world that cannot be made a little cheaper by making it a little worse!
yjp5
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4 Posts

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Argh! My first post to this forum to gripe about US sellers on eBay. I recently bought Porper's Just a Key and Strong Box on eBay and when the items arrived, the quality simply stunk, which is NOT the reputation of Porper items that I read about as a lurker on these forums. Then I find these posts about all these fakes. Very sad. I guess I am the sorry owner of two piece of c**p Porper knock-offs.

Sorry, Joe, for thinking I was getting a great bargain on your stuff by looking on eBay. These knock-offs must be costing you and your distributors a lot of business, and I'm sad that nothing more is being done to protect you from this practice.
Leo H
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Inner circle
1149 Posts

Profile of Leo H
Quote:
On 2013-08-26 20:29, yjp5 wrote:
Argh! My first post to this forum to gripe about US sellers on eBay. I recently bought Porper's Just a Key and Strong Box on eBay and when the items arrived, the quality simply stunk, which is NOT the reputation of Porper items that I read about as a lurker on these forums. Then I find these posts about all these fakes. Very sad. I guess I am the sorry owner of two piece of c**p Porper knock-offs.

Sorry, Joe, for thinking I was getting a great bargain on your stuff by looking on eBay. These knock-offs must be costing you and your distributors a lot of business, and I'm sad that nothing more is being done to protect you from this practice.


You can see the country of shipping origin next to the Shipping column on eBay ads. If it says China or Malaysia, you know it's a knockoff. The ridiculously low price is another tipoff. If you're purchasing from the U.S., know your seller!
Dougini
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Inner circle
The Beautiful State Of Maine
6886 Posts

Profile of Dougini
If you're going to buy a Porper item, buy it from HIM! Smile Want a Pete Biro item? Buy directly from him!

http://pete-biro.com/tricks/

I have a Pete Biro item I am VERY happy with, and he's right here in the Café! I never buy magic on eBay. Almost guaranteed a knock-off. Buy Chuck Leach items from Chazpro.com, Lassen/Schoolcraft items from their respective sites. This way you GUARANTEE the real thing! If we don't support our creators, they will vanish!

Doug
Torquay22
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Loyal user
271 Posts

Profile of Torquay22
Can we make a new forum topic based on a list of known fake items and sites and how to avoid them. Also would there be some form of certificate of authenticity or seal of approval
Dougini
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Inner circle
The Beautiful State Of Maine
6886 Posts

Profile of Dougini
That, I think would go in either the Right Or Wrong forum or the Good, Bad & Garbage section. Not sure about From Soup To Nuts. Office of Advisement might want to add another forum to that section based on your idea, Torquay.

Then we get into a dicey situation. In this lawsuit-happy society, ya gotta be careful, if you know wudda mean. Smile

Doug
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