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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Well, as you say, and I agree with you, this is some time into the future, however you are assuming todays mentalities and style of thinking and imposing that onto what the consciousness and intellectual development of future state representatives would be.
It wasn't long ago that the thought of France and Germany sharing a common currency was unthinkable, never mind trying to work together on something... Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-06-21 23:48, kambiz wrote: I'm not assuming that. At any point, there will be a choice; retaining sovereignty, or ceding resources and legislative and executive power to an international governing body. The two are inconsistent...now, in 20 years, or in 200 years. Mentalities and styles of thinking may affect which choice they make, but it's one or the other.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-06-21 07:18, Woland wrote: Hi Woland, My apologies for not responding to your question sooner. It seems that there are misunderstandings (many) in regards to how the "unity" that I am referring to will work. It most definitely does NOT include religious intolerance, as espoused by the Islamic clerics in Iran against the Baha'is. I'm not sure how many Baha'is you've met in your life, but the vast majority would cry at the thought of even verbally hurting another soul, so no I am convinced that this model of global community would look the opposite to what you see in some Islamic theocracies, in fact any theocracy. My suggestion would be to read a book named "The World Order of Baha'u'llah" where the full picture is outlined more comprehensively. http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/se/WOB/ I will leave it at that since we are heading towards the ideas of voluntary and forced education etc etc which are taking things into another dimension of exploration. Thanks again for offering your thoughts Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-06-22 00:05, LobowolfXXX wrote: Lobo, I would humbly disagree.... It all depends on the States definition of sovereignty at that time and what the constitution of the international governing body is at that time. There is no reason why attrition needs to exist, and why co-existence and mutual collaboration cannot exist...if the two bodies are willing to make it work, then anything can work. The outcomes would be better than what we have today in my opinion....firstly the persecution of minority groups would end, so that's a good start...and trust me I know what it looks like to be a minority that's despised.. I'll leave it at that from my perspective... Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Heaven is a totalitarian place. There is some one up there that thinks he is God.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Thanks for joining the discussion, Jonathan.
Quote:
Guess "our" does not include folks who value free choice ( or those who believe in free will?) It's usually more restrictive than that. It is interesting that all of the organized groups that stress the importance of "unity" always seem to need to focus on outsiders who must be eliminated in order to achieve that unity. The "people" does not include the "enemies of the people." Kam, thanks for responding. Your response, I think, proves my point. When asked how the justification of coercion in order to achieve supposedly beneficent goals -the article I started with and which you applauded- would not apply to the Mullahs who torture and kill adherents of your faith, your response is merely to assert that Baha'is are better people than the Mullahs and wouldn't dream of doing any bad things at all. But you do not challenge the ideological justification of coercion and tyranny. You still think that some elite group of the elect are entitled to impose their will on the rest of ignorant humanity, eschewing the most obviously brutal methods of doing that, and relying instead on subtler technologies. In essence, you are endorsing the world of Brave New World rather than 1984. In practice, it doesn't work. The human being is a recalcitrant entity, and there will always be resistence to monolithic totalitarianism. And those who would impose their will on the rest of us, have inevitably turned to the Gulag, the scaffold, and the rack. The only groups that have escaped that fate are those that have never actually held the reins of power. |
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Woland, believe you me, I totally challenge any ideological justification to coerce anyone, and so does the Bahai Faith. Tyranny??
What I'm implying is not that Baha'is are better people than the mullahs, but rather that all other religious Scripture has scope for a very wide variation for interpretive diversity, hence tyranny can be justified. That width of interpretation has been reduced to almost nothing in the Bahai Writings. For the first time in religious history, the message if God is incredibly clear.....that's all I'm saying..... Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
And that "message," therefore should, supercede all others? How do you go about that without suppressing the competing "messages?"
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-06-22 05:15, kambiz wrote: If an international government body has ultimate control over your resources and your laws, you've ceded sovereignty. If you want to say that the outcomes would be better, that's an entirely different discussion. But any country that signs up for this: "This commonwealth must, as far as we can visualize it, consist of a world legislature, whose members will, as the trustees of the whole of mankind, ultimately control the entire resources of all the component nations, and will enact such laws as shall be required to regulate the life, satisfy the needs and adjust the relationships of all races and peoples. ... A world tribunal will adjudicate and deliver its compulsory and final verdict in all and any disputes that may arise between the various elements constituting this universal system." ...has ceded its sovereignty.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
"...and will enact such laws as shall be required to regulate the life, satisfy the needs and adjust the relationships of all races and peoples."
Pure and unadulterated totalitarianism. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Wasn't there a schism in the Baha'i movement in America, centered on the community in Los Alamos, New Mexico?
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
You gota have a split.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-06-23 08:30, Woland wrote: No Woland, there are no schisms of the Faith. Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Lol, thanks for those links Woland.....there are some random people who would like to think that they know better than the CLEARLY and explicitly written down lineage of authority within the Bahai Faith, but that doesn't constitute an organized sect. Their numbers are so small that I'm very confident that within 1 or 2 generations they will no longer exist.
As I've said already Woland, the guidance in the Bahai Writings, especially those areas that matter, in terms of structure and social cohesion, are extremely clear and easy to understand by all. I'm pretty confident there will never be any schisms of the Bahai Faith. The articles claim that the Faith is itself a schism of Islam, which is totally misinformed, so I question the motives and the knowledge of its author. Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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