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stoneunhinged
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So...I was reading about bath salts earlier in the week (which prompted me to post my Zombie thread). And I also read several articles about "Krokodil", a kitchen-cooked replacement for heroine that is rotting the flesh of thousands of Russian addicts. And I got the thought:

1.) People want to get high.

2.) The state has no interest in whether people get high unless it causes some kind of threat to public safety.

3.) The threat to public safety is actually higher (anybody wanna move to Juarez?) when the state criminalizes recreational drugs, since everything moves underground and outside state control.

4.) Thus the most rational solution to the problem of recreational drug abuse would be to legalize recreational drugs, so that more effective public safety measures could be put into place.

And having thought about these things, I thought: why don't our politicians start thinking about these things?

Keep reading: I recently watched a George Carlin clip about how we are all actually "owned", and how democracy and freedom doesn't really exist. And since I was thinking about these other things, I thought: wait! Who would benefit from decriminalizing recreational drugs? The MONSTER pharmaceutical companies like BAYER. Assuming all the politicians are in the pockets of the MONSTER pharmaceutical companies, why have we not decriminalized recreational drugs?

The answer (sad to say) is that Carlin is wrong. We aren't owned by gigantic corporations. In fact, we are governed by people who fear what would happen if giant corporations fed our appetites without regulation.

One more point: make no assumptions whatsoever about what I actually believe. But for this thread I say: legalize recreational drugs so that the state can actually get involved in regulating them for quality, potency, and dependency. Let companies like Bayer make their money by providing quality-controlled, precisionly-dosed, cheap recreation drugs that the state can choose to regulate through prescriptions and taxes. Let people get high if they want to, without taking the added--and extreme!--risk of doing "bath salts" or "krokodil".

Whaddya all think?
balducci
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Quote:
On 2012-06-23 13:21, stoneunhinged wrote:

Keep reading: I recently watched a George Carlin clip about how we are all actually "owned", and how democracy and freedom doesn't really exist. And since I was thinking about these other things, I thought: wait! Who would benefit from decriminalizing recreational drugs? The MONSTER pharmaceutical companies like BAYER. Assuming all the politicians are in the pockets of the MONSTER pharmaceutical companies, why have we not decriminalized recreational drugs?

I believe that many of the most popular recreational drugs do not need monster pharmaceutical companies to get involved to supply "quality-controlled, precisionly-dosed, cheap recreation" drugs. These drugs are already easy and cheap enough to be manufactured thus by small concerns. So your premise may be mistaken. Or maybe not, I don't really know.

However, I also think the chemical and drug companies are already profiting (indirectly) from the production of many illegal drugs. In many cases, they are the companies that supply many of the raw materials (at bloated retail prices) that go into the manufacture of 'illegal' drugs. E.g., to give one example, recall how Sudafed and like drugs were / are purchased off the shelf to make meth.

Maybe the large chemical companies think it is better to make money in this way, by supplying raw materials (with plausible deniability as to what their end use is), than it would be to manufacture the recreational drugs themselves and open themselves to lawsuits down the road (e.g., as in the tobacco industry)?

BTW, amusing article:

"How to synthesize Sudafed from crystal meth"

http://io9.com/5888812/how-to-synthesize......tal-meth
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
diehards2080
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It would make sense to legalize recreational drugs but its a case of too many hands in the cookie jar. It's more profitable to keep these drugs illegal because of the inflated budgets that is thrown around for the War on Drugs that we don't even make a dent it from year to year.

We produce some of the raw material but to keep up with supply. We buy from across seas. At one point most of it was coming from China. China is one of the biggest manufacturers of raw powder materials one of them being Ephedrine which is needed for Meth. I wonder what goverment regulations are in place to prevent the good ole "fell off the back of a truck" thing. What is the acceptable amount of lost of these materials before it has to be reported? Who knows.

Just my 02 cents how ever crazy they may be
LobowolfXXX
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IMO, it's about electability, not profitability. With the possible exception of marijuana, almost any congress member who introduces or supports a bill favoring the legalization of (the popular currently) illegal drugs will be looking for a new job come next election time. They're illegal because we (by which I mean an overwhelming majority of American voters) want them to be.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

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Woland
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Hi Stone,

I think many things are better left to the free market than to short-sighted government bureaucrats.
gdw
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You've got the pharmaceutical corporations desires completely flipped. They are actually benefiting HUGELY from the prohibition of many drugs.
For starters, as I understand it, they agent able to patent, and this monopolise, marajuana.

http://www.republicreport.org/2012/marijuana-lobby-illegal/
http://www.trutv.com/conspiracy/in-the-s......ent.html

The problem is actually that the state DOES regulate recreational drugs, to the absolute extreme, by prohibition.
It is through legitimate businesses producing products in competition that true regulation and quality control occurs.
Regulations make it so that corporations actually do NOT have to improve, as they regulate their competition down.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

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balducci
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Apparently bath salts may have gotten a bad rap. No bath salts were found in the system of that Miami cannibal attacker:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/12......azy.html

(The material below is from a feature article in another publication ... You can find the link to it in the article above.)

A month after the gruesome attack on the MacArthur Causeway, the Miami-Dade County medical examiner released the final toxicology report. A second laboratory independently confirmed the results.

No bath salts were found in Eugene’s system.

“Within the limits of current technology by both laboratories,” the medical examiner’s office said in a statement, “marijuana is the only drug identified in the body of Mr. Rudy Eugene.”

A number of elements present on the day of the attack might in combination unravel the mystery. A fair amount of circumstantial evidence suggests Eugene suffered from an undiagnosed mental illness—his obsessive religiosity, his persecution complex, his violent outbursts and his suicidal impulses.

“When I read about the case, the first thing I thought was that he was a paranoid schizophrenic,” says Wade Silverman, a Miami-based forensic psychologist. “There is often a religious element in schizophrenic behavior. Paranoid schizophrenics often hear voices from God.”

Environmental factors could also have played a role. What about the 90-degree heat and the three-mile trek across a concrete causeway with no shade? The sun can do strange things to a man’s mind. And then there was the marijuana. Marijuana use on its own can’t explain extreme aggression, but a growing body of medical evidence says pot can sometimes trigger aggression in the mentally ill.

Many different elements might have clarified what went down that afternoon, but in an act of mass hysteria, everybody focused on the one factor that wasn’t there: bath salts.

“We as a society have a preoccupation with drugs as evil,” says Silverman. “It’s less threatening for people to believe that some evil substance caused this incident because the alternative explanation is too frightening—that some people can act like this on their own without drugs being involved.”

Surely now the frenzy would subside, given the final toxicology reports.

No such luck. Armando Aguilar returned to the media spotlight to challenge the medical examiner’s findings.

“I still believe there was something else in Rudy Eugene’s system other than marijuana that the medical examiner didn’t detect,” says the union chief (who will step down at the end of his term). “There was definitely something there, something we just can’t test for yet, maybe a new form of bath salts or maybe even a completely new compound that we don’t yet know about.”

Why is Aguilar continuing to fan the flames? As a former drug cop, he must know that no bath salts epidemic exists in Miami. He must know that the number of arrests for the possession or dealing of bath salts in Miami in the past 12 months is zero.

“Until certain people started speculating about bath salts, I’d never even heard about this drug, and neither had most of the Miami Police Department,” says department spokesman Delrish Moss. “In the city of Miami we have cocaine, marijuana, heroin and, to a lesser extent, a number of club drugs like ecstasy, but bath salts weren’t even on our radar.”

“I don’t know where the union chief is getting this from,” he adds.

I started to suspect that Aguilar’s real agenda wasn’t about bath salts. Was this more about the Department of Justice investigation of the Miami PD? Were bath salts a convenient bogeyman to justify police officers using deadly force to subdue drug users?
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Woland
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Hi balducci,

Quote:
I believe that many of the most popular recreational drugs do not need monster pharmaceutical companies to get involved to supply "quality-controlled, precisionly-dosed, cheap recreation" drugs. These drugs are already easy and cheap enough to be manufactured thus by small concerns. So your premise may be mistaken. Or maybe not, I don't really know.


The history of the regulation of prescription drugs suggests that the public would be well served by the regulation of recreational drugs, with an eye to ensuring that the products actually contain what they are advertised to contain, and that there are no unsafe adulterants added, etc.

May I add that the problem of counterfeit prescription drugs, many of them by the way entering the US from Canada, is becoming increasingly serious.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2012-12-29 08:47, Woland wrote:
Hi balducci,

Quote:
I believe that many of the most popular recreational drugs do not need monster pharmaceutical companies to get involved to supply "quality-controlled, precisionly-dosed, cheap recreation" drugs. These drugs are already easy and cheap enough to be manufactured thus by small concerns. So your premise may be mistaken. Or maybe not, I don't really know.


The history of the regulation of prescription drugs suggests that the public would be well served by the regulation of recreational drugs, with an eye to ensuring that the products actually contain what they are advertised to contain, and that there are no unsafe adulterants added, etc..

Where did I ever say otherwise? Of course production of any of the drugs should be regulated / quality controlled.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Woland
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I think I over-interpreted what you meant by "small concerns." Although I can tell you that "small concerns" find it increasingly difficult to comply with regulation.
Dreadnought
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Legalize them all, the heard needs to be culled.
Peace

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tommy
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Don Zaluchi: I also don't believe in drugs. For years I paid my people extra so they wouldn't do that kind of business. Somebody comes to them and says, "I have powders; if you put up three, four thousand dollar investment, we can make fifty thousand distributing." So they can't resist. I want to control it as a business, to keep it respectable.
[slams his hand on the table and shouts]
Don Zaluchi: I don't want it near schools! I don't want it sold to children! That's an infamia. In my city, we would keep the traffic in the dark people, the coloreds. They're animals anyway, so let them lose their souls.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2012-12-29 09:27, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-12-29 08:47, Woland wrote:
Hi balducci,

Quote:
I believe that many of the most popular recreational drugs do not need monster pharmaceutical companies to get involved to supply "quality-controlled, precisionly-dosed, cheap recreation" drugs. These drugs are already easy and cheap enough to be manufactured thus by small concerns. So your premise may be mistaken. Or maybe not, I don't really know.


The history of the regulation of prescription drugs suggests that the public would be well served by the regulation of recreational drugs, with an eye to ensuring that the products actually contain what they are advertised to contain, and that there are no unsafe adulterants added, etc..

Where did I ever say otherwise? Of course production of any of the drugs should be regulated / quality controlled.


C'mon Balducci. Everyone knows that regulation merely stifles the free market. Let the market separate the good from the bad and keep government's hands off business. "Sorry about your mother, son, but the market will sort out the quality from the poison." Get with the 21st century economics, son!
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Woland
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Hi Magnus,

The history of the regulation of pharmaceuticals is quite interesting. It suggests that an external guarantee of the identity and purity of the drugs in the marketplace, as well as some evidence of (initially only) their safety and (since the late 1960s) their efficacy, is useful. A perhaps unfortunate side-effect or perhaps unintended consequence of that, however, is that small companies simply can't afford to comply with the regulations that have grown up, leaving only major players in the marketplace. But even so, the prescription drug market is one of the least concentrated in the world, and the biggest pharmaceutical companies have only a 5 to 10% market share.

There is no question that regulation stifles the free market. But a certain amount of stifling is not necessarily a bad thing.
acesover
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What doctor would prescribe these drugs and for what reason? I mean they did take an oath.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
tommy
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You take the blue pill
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2012-12-29 14:41, Woland wrote:
Hi Magnus,

The history of the regulation of pharmaceuticals is quite interesting. It suggests that an external guarantee of the identity and purity of the drugs in the marketplace, as well as some evidence of (initially only) their safety and (since the late 1960s) their efficacy, is useful. A perhaps unfortunate side-effect or perhaps unintended consequence of that, however, is that small companies simply can't afford to comply with the regulations that have grown up, leaving only major players in the marketplace. But even so, the prescription drug market is one of the least concentrated in the world, and the biggest pharmaceutical companies have only a 5 to 10% market share.

There is no question that regulation stifles the free market. But a certain amount of stifling is not necessarily a bad thing.


100% agreement, Woland.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Steve_Mollett
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balducci
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Quote:
On 2012-12-29 21:23, acesover wrote:
What doctor would prescribe these drugs and for what reason? I mean they did take an oath.

Just search on medical marijuana. Many doctors prescribe it, for a variety of legitimate medical reasons. Or see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_cannabis
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
tommy
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British culture was extremely strait-laced in the 1950s - it was rigid and confined and everybody went to church, except me. Today they are all junkies, except me. God knows what they taught them.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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