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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts 
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While they're arbitrary, there was some method to my madness in using the numbers as given; I think for the most part, the more "obvious" choices that came first were probably at least somewhat better, on the whole, than the later choices when we were kind of stretching to fill out the list. (though not fully so; obviously(?) the New & Old Testament could rank higher!)
I would keep the "seedings" for the second round, too, so if The Feminine Mystique moves into the second round, it would take the #18 seed and have to get by whichever Paine book wins (I think you can make a good case for either). Of course, on the other hand, for similar reasons, I think it's unfortunately that either The Bell Curve or both Paine books will have to be OUT of the final 10. But on the other hand, I think the head-to-head is kind of interesting, if imperfect in its own way. I propose doing it both ways; it might be interesting then to compare the lists. At least for those who want to participate in the head-to-head version. I'll also be posting a top-10, for those who are more interested in the survey version.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts
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Well, here's 10.
5. Hitler, Mein Kampf 6. The Prophet, Quran 9. Marx/Engels, Communist Manifesto 10. Freud, Interpretation of Dreams 11. Rand, Atlas Shrugged 3. Paine, Age of Reason 26. Machiavelli, The Prince 28. Luther, Ninety Five Theses 33. Hubbard, Dianetics 37. The Old and New Testament (Let's include all translations etc., here)
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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Nice selection, landmark.
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts
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While this is obviusly an excersize in fun as I feel that very few people here have read all the books which in my opinion would make it rather difficult to have much confidence in their vote, myself indcluded. I have read only 6 (Old and NEw Testament, To Kill a Mocking Bird, <Dianetics didn't finish it>, Mein Kampf, The Crucible, Uncle Tom's Cabin). OK I still have my copy of Anachisit Cook Book but never really read the whole thing.
Before a book because of its conents and message can be considered dangerous it should I would imagine have to be read. Having said that I was at a graduatioin party on Sunday and asked a few people about some of the books here (the ones I remembered) and the only ones that people realy knew anything about were the Bible, Uncle Toms Cabin, Mein Kampf and to To Kill a Mocking bird. Granted I did not ask about every book on the list. As far as having read them cover to cover the only ones that got that distinction was Uncle Toms Cabin and To Kill a Mockingbird, and then most said I think I read those in High School. Most people read a few thngs in the Bible but no one I spoke to read it cover to cover. While this is not a great poll I really believe it may be rather accurate. Ages ranged from graduatiing seniors to their grand parents and consisted of aroudn 30 or so people. Only one of the High School kids that just graduaated read Uncle Toms Cabin but everyone heard of it. So maybe it is more dangerous that people have not read these books, than the idea of these books being read are dangerous. Just a thought.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 09:41, acesover wrote: Aces, you're thinking too democratically, as if dangerousness were somehow connected to popularity. Let's say, for example, that only 20,000 read Mein Kampf. Well, who were they? Party officials, would-be bureaucrats, fanatics, anti-semites--and in general, people who ended up being in positions of power in the early 1930s. Does it make the book less powerful that you and I and our cousins have never read the book. Must we read the book ourselves to understand the historical impact it had? I understand your point, but I think there is more to assessing books than simply reading them. Another example would be Uncle Tom's Cabin. I wouldn't be surprised if NONE of us here at the Café had ever read it. I certainly haven't. And I was never asked to read it at any point in my education. But do I deny it's impact in mid-19th century America? How could I deny its impact on the basis of having never read it? To everyone else: I think Lobo's suggestion makes most sense. I agree with him that arbitrariness isn't really an issue, since at each point a particular pairing should still have a arguable claim to being more dangerous. And while this exercise may seem to be meant as fun, I didn't mean it that way at all. I meant it simply as a commentary on that list of 10 dangerous books that I found to be rather silly. Catcher in the Rye is dangerous? Just because some nut read it and shot John Lennon? Tens of millions of people died at the hands of people who followed the ideas laid out in [i]Mein Kampf[i/]. That was the point of this exercise. At this point I think we've pretty much justified my point of view. Still, I think it would be fun to continue. |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 10:15, stoneunhinged wrote: Does is-more-dangerous-than constitute a strict total order? I'd be quite surprised if it does. |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 10:15, stoneunhinged wrote: Have you no confidence in human nature? If you pick a select group of people to read a book that have preconceived ideas and sit in high places you will definitely get one outcome. If you select a certain group of people who sit in high places with different preconceived notions you will get another. So as in my last statement it is more dangerous to not have the majority of people read, as we have defined, a dangerous book, than to have a few read said book. If everyone could read the book the outcome may be entirely different than that of the select groups as I believe that people are inherently good and realize that what they have just read is not acceptable. That of course is in a perfect world. As far as justsifying your point of view there is no need to do that. It is as you state in your last sentence of the quoted post, "it would be fun to continue." I agree it would be fun to continue this "fun" excersize. However I still find it difficult to eliminate or accept books that I have not read. I don't care how many qualifiers one puts in. 
OK lets continue to have fun. 
Just don't take it to seriously.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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The reason arbitrariness IS an issue is that the pairings themselves are arbitrary and could easily result in books making the top ten that just about everyone here would agree don't belong there.
Example- Assume the first round paired "The Satanic Bible" against "Looking Out for Number One." Further assume "The Satanic Bible" won. Another pairing in the first round could be the "DSM" and "Bridge is a Partnership Game." Let's assume that the "DSM" wins there. Thus, it is quite possible that "The Satanic Bible" and the "DSM" would be matched in the second, and final, round. One of them would win and end up in the top ten. NEITHER belongs there and only would have made it because of the fortuity of the pairings. By the same reasoning, a book that just about everyone would agree belongs in the top ten could easily be eliminated because of the arbitrary nature of the pairings. If two books that both clearly belong in the top ten are paired of against each other, one of them must, therefore, be eliminated. That's why the final result of a "tournament" style ranking, would, of necessity, be entirely arbitrary. |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 10:23, S2000magician wrote: Did I ever strike you as a mathematician in any way? If so... LOL! |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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I remember the times when teachers would hit children with books
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 14:59, tommy wrote: Going to be a lot less painful geting hit with a Kindle or a Nook.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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I don't think it would be [i[entirely[/i] arbitrary, because I think that the the better choices, on balance, are more likely to show up earlier, as I noted above. I don't think it's a coincidence that everyone's list so far includes more selections from 1-20 than from 21-40. But I do understand Bob's concern, and share it to a lesser extent.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-02 13:55, stoneunhinged wrote: No, but there's always hope that you can grow. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts
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Wow, there's more process discussion here than at an Occupy Wall Street general assembly!
Rather than more process discussion, just jump in doing it the way you want to, and let's see what happens. It's an interesting thread, let's not have it die. Otherwise it's 50 more pages of the Baha'i thread
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Octopus Sun Special user Wiggle Wiggle 586 Posts
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How about Abbie Hoffman's
"Don't Steal This Book" didn't see it mentioned, could have missed it if someone did mention it. caused some serious damage. next the Bible and Koran - caused millions of Innocent people to be Murdered by the Catholics, the Christians, and the Islamic Initiatory sects. hands down because of the I'm Holier than Thou attitudes taken by people in the past and today. IMHO both are the most dangerous books written. Think about it more death and destruction have happened due to these pieces of middle eastern beliefs of the War Gods |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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Abbie Hoffman's book wasn't called "Don't Steal This Book." The reason it caused a problem was because it was called "Steal This Book."
The Bible and the Koran are already on the list of forty. |
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MaXiMoN_-_Copie.jpg "View Profile") Regular user Morocco 125 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-04 02:20, mastermindreader wrote: you should add the Talmud too and Kabbalah to the the top5!!!!! |
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Posted: Jul 2, 2012 04:26 am 
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