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Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts |
Hi fellow coin magi,
Wanted to find out how YOU practice to reduce, minimize, eliminate getting busted with angly sleights. I've been working on Roth's Wild Coin routine for a few months. Love the routine and sleights involved. I practiced very hard. MOST of the sleights were good. Still iffy on the Spellbound moves, but passable. Used a mirror off and on to confirm the flow of the presentation and "window inspection"; and video taped a few times. Then yesterday I sessioned with my buddy Lam. It went "okay". Sputtered during the Spellbound sections---but he said some of the changes looked very magical. Anyway, during the presentation my angles were just WRONG! Too muc exposure. Argh! Glad HE gave me the feedback. It really was invaluable. So, my friends, HOW do YOU practice to get more angle-proof?
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
That's the best way to learn to get more angle proof--experience like you just described.
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Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts |
Yep, that's it.
Al Schneider
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
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Jimeh Inner circle Ottawa, Ontario 1399 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-06-28 11:01, Atom3339 wrote: Pretty much the same as you, a vid camera to watch it back and a trusted friend who can give a second opinion when I'm not sure about things. |
Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts |
Well, here's another way.
Kinda. I have worked very hard at cups and balls. I have sat with a ball palmed and opened my hand and closed it to see where the windows are. I have done this a lot. Sometimes I felt like throwing the cup against the wall it is so frustrating. Then, one day I am performing. A lady to my left, and not a bad angle, says, "I see a ball in your hand." Crash and burn. I could not figure out how that could be. I finally got it. I polished my cups and they had a mirror finish. The cup reflected the inside of my hand when I reached for it. To solve this required several months of work. I guess I have some kind of stature in magic. Well, if I do, that stature is built on many failures. I think the sign of a real pro is their knowing their failures. I have many. But I don't know if that makes me great or not. It does make me humble but sometimes intolerant of those that claim to know it all. Well, anyway, it is called paying your dues. Al Schneider
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
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taiga Veteran user Chicoutimi, Qc 317 Posts |
When I learn a new move, I use sometime a video camera, or a three way mirror( /-\ ) I did to check out my angles. BUT there is nothing like a real life experience and the burn of being caught!
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cablerock Veteran user 362 Posts |
Another great thread here. Good advice. I feel strongly that the very best way to practice is with another trusted friend/magician, as they can point out specific things that don't work/look iffy. It is amazing how one can spend an endless amount of time working on something, when all it takes is somebody with a slightly different perspective/awareness to easily look at what they are doing and offer correction.
If only I had future me as a teacher... |
Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts |
^ cable, that was exactly my experience!
Al is so right about failures too! I've never used a 3 Way mirror.
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts |
Beware of mirrors.
They have two problems. First, you will tend to blink when you do a move. That can become part of your personality. I know an extreamly well known performer that practiced a rope cutting sleight in front of a mirror a lot. During each performenace for the rest of this life, he would close his eyes when he cut the rope during a rope routine in front of a live audience. Another problem with a lot of mirror practice. You will develop mirror stare. That is when you do a lot of mirror work you will stare off into space when you perform. I had a chat long ago with Lance Burton about this. He did a lot of mirror work with doves when he practiced. I noticed this stare and asked him about it. When he performed he had a far away look in his eyes. In Vegas people noticed this and said he looked like a mortician performing. It looked erie in his performance but worked with the environemnt he had set up with a tux and so on. So, it worked for him. Just thought you might like to know some barriers with mirrors. Al Schneider
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
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David Neighbors V.I.P. 4910 Posts |
Yea your right! After You look At your Angles, And see what it looks like Get away From The Mirror!
You mite want to video tape your stuff! Then you can look at it Latter When you are not Busy Doing It! |
taiga Veteran user Chicoutimi, Qc 317 Posts |
Video is definitely the best. Now that almost each lap tops or portable phones have a video-recorder, it seems easy to have access to something to record yourself (I know, I do!). BUT I still use mirror to look at some critical angle or hand position. And, no I'm not a mirror addict! For me it's just a minor-tool!
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Two more votes for experience and video. If you look at an early video performance of yourself and don't cringe, you're a lucky (and rare) person.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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MICKEY SILVER Elite user Boston, Ma. 442 Posts |
It’s not all about angle -sleights
Misdirecting your audience while performing coin magic is just as important (if not more) than the angles themselves. You will learn in time through experience and practice that if you can misdirect well enough, your coin routines can go completely wrong at times due to certain angles and the spectators will never know! ( THIS IS A FACT) It is imperative that you “LEARN HOW TO" control your audience's thoughts and eyes in order to correctly execute your gestures and feints - only then to work in conjunction with hiding your angles.. REMEMBER YOU ARE IN CHARGE! You have the ability to control your spectators with a wide range of techniques. Start by positioning them in a suitable place. This is especially important in certain coin routines where angles are important. Once they are in a suitable position, you can start concentrating on the more subtle forms of misdirection. Eye contact is essential - you should always monitor your audience - sustaining eye contact while you are trying to hide your angles can be a smart move (so you can execute your move with perfect timing, knowing that they are looking at your eyes). If you believe someone may see your move, make a larger move with another part of your body - you may cough, itch your face, wave your magic wand, put something on the table... the list is endless. Once mastered, your coin routines ( tough angle sleights especially) will leave your spectators entertained , and the fact that they “DON’T KNOW HOW IT IS DONE “ will leave them mystified as living hell. MICKEY SILVER - “THE HANDS OF LAS VEGAS" |
vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Well said Mickey..I have watched you control your audience in the many years that we have been friends. even with out you speaking a word.
there are many fine coin workers but only one Mickey Silver... vinny |
Tanay Regular user 162 Posts |
For me, what has worked great recently is filming it with a camera at a low angle, but angled upwards so that it simulates seated spectators looking upwards at your magic...it has helped me to eliminate so many flashes as I normally perform for seated audiences
Tanay
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Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts |
Thank you for the responses. I am humbled by the Big Names who have contributed here. Mickey, when's that book coming out?
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
When I'm feeling tough I have my 5 year old watch. He catches everything and hasn't developed that un-helpful "polite dishonesty" yet. I've read that The Professor did the same.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts |
Mikey
I would like to add one little thing to your excellent discussion. When you present one of your miricles the audience will be shocked. I assume you understand that they are not accustomed to this. People normally walk through life with their shields up. This enables them to deal with life in a rational way. Life throws many jabs and as we grow we develop ways to deal with the jabs. The issue here is that when a person such as yourself do the thing you do, you rip apart a person's reality. Many find this interesting and we can get them to pay money to experience it. However, that shock tends to pulverise their shield. The point is that when you execute the magic, the observer will suddenly feel very nude. If you, the performer, are looking at them the moment the magic occurs, the person will feel nude in front of you. For a spectator this can be a very uncomfortable feeling. Thus, if you are looking at someone when the magic occurs, the will feel this exposure and pull up their shield so they can resume normal life. This tends to stop the magicial pleasure they may be experience. My suggestion is to enable the audience to be more comfortable and get more out of the magic, do not look at them the moment the magic occurs. When I perform, I always looks away from the audience when the magic occurs. I suspect you know this and would like your opinion on it. I discovered this while working in a magic shop. When I would demo a trick for someone I would put the box it came in on the conter behind me. Then I would show the customer the trick. When the magic occured, I would not look at the person, I would drop the props in front of them, and turn to find the box it came in. I would fumble here as if I could not find the box. I would let time pass so the customer would be alone with their thoghts. Then, after a bit, I would turn, put the box in front of them and tell them the price of the trick. My sales were 5 times higher than any one else in the store. If any reader would like to test this you can with a retention vanish. Get a trusted frined and do the vanish two ways. First do the vanish and look at them the moment the coin disappears. Then do the same vanish and look away when the coin disappears. Ask the person what they think of each. The results are staggering. You need not take my word for it. Try it out and see what happens. Al Schneider
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-06-28 23:31, MICKEY SILVER wrote: Nothing beats experience, that's how I've learned what works and what doesn't. Video is good but real eyes are better. Anyway, very well said Mick. Think your experience as to angles probably exceeds anyone here as to your dynamic kind of magic. Appreciate your to the point comments about misdirecting your audiences thoughts. I have always found this to be most important. Can't articulate it like you or distort it like some others but I do know exactly what you mean as I have experienced it and basically it comes down to the Magi being in complete control of the moments. If so, then angles aren't as important a thing to dwell upon. Thanks Mick and your work really proves all this like very few that I have seen, with real people many times completely surrounded. You are something else Mick, no books, DVDs, etc., just real stuff, experiences and ability that's hard to match. Fascinating!
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Here I can partially agree with Al. Eye contact is not necessary at the moment THEY THINK the magic is happening and may detract or cause embarassment -- but eye contct is absolutely necesary at the moment the tricky move actually happens. The release of eye contact can serve to signal that the apparent magic is occuring just as much as the wave of wand or mumbled words.
But Mickey has also spoken of the echo effect of a second round of "awe and wonder." This can be triggered by again gaining eye contact. The second is a shared experience while the first is a solitary astonishment. You are controlling the illusion rather than the person. Many effects rely on Anticipation with subsequent Surprise when an unexpected result occurs. You should never break eye contact until the expected action occurs -- then a break is natural as you feign as much Surprise as they. Maybe Mickey will elaborate ...
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
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