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Dannydoyle
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He is a personal hero of nine. Always has been.

Just sucks. Drugs are ok, but since 1919 they are pretty nasty about betting.

His hitting streak was incredible.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mastermindreader
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Reminds me of one of my favorite lines delivered by Hyman Roth in "The Godfather, Part 2:"

"I've loved baseball ever since Arnold Rothstein fixed the World Series in 1919."

:eek:

But I agree that Rose should be forgiven and be eligible for the Hall of Fame. As I understand the facts, he never gambled on Reds games. That makes a bit difference in my mind.
Dannydoyle
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I thought he bet them to win? Been so lo I am not sure. Heck I think they should place a 1/2 their salary bet straight to win! Might make the games a bit more exciting.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
LobowolfXXX
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Yeah, my recollection is that he bet on Reds games, but never against them.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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Yes, I think that was it. If he had bet against his own team, that would have been unforgivable. I can't really place any moral blame at all, though, on anyone who bets on himself or his own team to win.

A violation of baseball rules, yes. An offense worth of banishment, no.
Dannydoyle
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I believe it becomes an issue of the spread. That sort of deal. Point guard shaving and such.

It is just something that if a fix is in or looks in, it costs ticket sales. AND THOSE ARE EXPENSIVE TICKETS to say the least.

I agree it is not worth a lifetime banishment. (Though I have never personally watched that network.) Just sad is all. The man was cut from great cloth. That same competetive drive that gave him an edge, also gave him that gambling demon. Sad.
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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I too always loved and admired Pete Rose as a player. But like some others have said, I think he blew it by not coming clean in the beginning. Then he really blew it again by not showing enough remorse when he talked to the Commissioner of Baseball.

Mike Schmidt said this, "Pete's confession lacked one major thing in Bud's mind: remorse. I spoke to Bud later, and he told me he got the confession he had expected, but not the expression of genuine remorse he had hoped for."

Another Mike Schmidt quote:

"If it were me, and I had lived a lie for 14 years, and I went up to tell the commissioner that I was sincerely sorry for what I've done to my family, to the sport, etc., I probably would be back in baseball now and in the Hall of Fame, because I would have been a tremendously remorseful individual. And I would have felt the burden of that the rest of my life, in everything that I did. And I would have, in my travels, been a totally different person. My lifestyle would have changed. I would have felt an obligation to change and to become someone that the baseball world would once again learn to love after forgiving me. I would have been that guy. And I don't think Pete has been."

Still you can't help but feel for him, Pete Rose, especially after him saying this:

“I should have had the opportunity to get help, but baseball had no fancy rehab for gamblers like they do for drug addicts, ... If I had admitted my guilt, it would have been the same as putting my head on the chopping block -- lifetime ban. Death penalty. I spent my entire life on the baseball fields of America, and I was not going to give up my profession without first seeing some hard evidence. Right or wrong, the punishment didn't fit the crime -- so I denied the crime."



I do agree, it is sad they can't work something out. He was one of the best.

Tom
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Dannydoyle
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Wasn't Schmitt also the guy crying during his retirement speech? He was sort of an emotion on the sleeve guy. Rose was more old school tough I think.

I do think that is a major stumbling block Tom I agree.

True nobody wanted to help him. Just assign blame.
Danny Doyle
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satellite23
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Wow, isn't it wonderful how a simple baseball card can inspire such conversation?

Mentioning Bud Selig reminded me of a video after the Phillies won the 2008 WS. Bud Selig got booed off stage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkvKwNBv9Ik

Anyways, I went to the card shop yesterday. Ended up with a Topps 2008 Allen & Ginter Joey Votto RC, a 1991 Upper Deck Ted Williams Baseball Heroes Set, and the complete 1989 Score Set that includes Roger Clemens, Griffey Jr. RC, and Randy Johnson RC. All in all, paid almost $30 for everything.

The card shop was AMAZING, though. It seemed so laid-back. There were old timers sitting in the back just talking, the people who were working were conversing with the customers, and there were TONS of cards. A lot of sets, even from the 40s and 50s that were selling for hundreds of dollars. They had individual cards as well. Some of them were PSA graded, others weren't. There were also football cards ,NASCAR models, Hockey cards, Golf cards, lots of Reds Memorabilia with most of it being signed by certain players or coaches. It was just simply amazing.
Steve_Mollett
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Never was into baseball cards, but had some close friends who were.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
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TomBoleware
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Quote:
On 2012-07-01 08:33, satellite23 wrote:
Wow, isn't it wonderful how a simple baseball card can inspire such conversation?

Mentioning Bud Selig reminded me of a video after the Phillies won the 2008 WS. Bud Selig got booed off stage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkvKwNBv9Ik

Anyways, I went to the card shop yesterday. Ended up with a Topps 2008 Allen & Ginter Joey Votto RC, a 1991 Upper Deck Ted Williams Baseball Heroes Set, and the complete 1989 Score Set that includes Roger Clemens, Griffey Jr. RC, and Randy Johnson RC. All in all, paid almost $30 for everything.

The card shop was AMAZING, though. It seemed so laid-back. There were old timers sitting in the back just talking, the people who were working were conversing with the customers, and there were TONS of cards. A lot of sets, even from the 40s and 50s that were selling for hundreds of dollars. They had individual cards as well. Some of them were PSA graded, others weren't. There were also football cards ,NASCAR models, Hockey cards, Golf cards, lots of Reds Memorabilia with most of it being signed by certain players or coaches. It was just simply amazing.



That's why they call it Americans Pastime. We all know a little about baseball even if it just on a little league level.

Glad to hear you enjoyed the visit to the shop. Sounds little you do have a 'real' shop there. It also sounds like you did really well with your purchase. Nice deal.

Ted Williams, now there is a real baseball player. His goal in life was to have people say, "there goes the best baseball hitter in the world." I think he reached that goal. It's my understanding that Williams didn't like dealing with the press at all. He didn't like them digging into his personal life, so he kept his distance most of his life.

A little story about Ted Williams. I already told you about me meeting Bob Grim, so it will be easy.

After Bob's visit here in 1996, he went on down to Florida to visit some friends and one of the friends took him over to see Ted Williams.
Bob was very excited because Ted was always his hero. I don't think he had really met Ted other than the few times they had played against each other.

Anyway, I had taught Bob a magic trick using a tt and silk while he was in my shop. He showed the trick to Ted. Ted loved it so much Bob finally gave in and gave the tip, silk, and secret to Ted. Bob then stopped back by the shop on the way back home to get him another one. Man, was he excited about his visit with Ted.

So maybe I will go down in baseball history as the man who taught the man that fooled Ted Williams. LOL


I too had forgotten about the Bud Selig booing. Smile Thanks for the link.


Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/

When you come to the point where you have no need to impress anybody, your freedom will begin.
LobowolfXXX
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And when you look at Williams's career numbers, don't forget that he lost several years to military service.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
acesover
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Talk aboaut throwing gas on a fire. Do you believe they would have done this to Pete Rose if he were Afro American? You know there would have been a huge uproar if they did. Just asking.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
balducci
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Quote:
On 2012-07-01 12:12, TomBoleware wrote:

That's why they call it Americans Pastime. We all know a little about baseball even if it just on a little league level.

That reminds me of a cartoon from this morning's newspaper:

http://www.gocomics.com/meaningoflila/2012/07/01

Image


:)
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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Also, pretty much everyone knows DiMaggio's hitting streak, but Williams has the record for most games reaching base safely (84!!) and most consecutive plate appearances without an out (16!!)

These are the records for "officially" reaching base, i.e. the ways that raise on-base percentage (not counting errors, fielder's choices, etc.). In other words, only hits, walks, and hit-by-pitches. I've heard at least one very knowledgeable baseball person opine that the consecutive plate appearances record was more impressive and will be harder to break than DiMaggio's streak.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
satellite23
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Very interesting, Lobowolf.

According to Wikipedia's list of unbreakable records, those two are not on there. Now, whether you trust Wiki's page or not in something else... Smile
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2012-07-01 12:14, acesover wrote:
Talk aboaut throwing gas on a fire. Do you believe they would have done this to Pete Rose if he were Afro American? You know there would have been a huge uproar if they did. Just asking.


Yes- I believe they would have. And, no, the reaction wouldn't have been any different. I didn't see any major uproar when Barry Bonds got indicted. I'm amazed you'd want to make a racial issue out of this.
TomBoleware
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Ted Williams was known for waiting on the right pitch. He just flat out wouldn't strike at anything.

I'm guessing the pitchers hated him for it too. Smile

Here is a nice little article about him.:
http://www.boston.com/sports/redsox/will......s+.shtml


Tom
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When you come to the point where you have no need to impress anybody, your freedom will begin.
LobowolfXXX
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His 20-10 eyesight didn't hurt, either, when he was looking for that good pitch!
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
TomBoleware
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You better have good eyes when you see a 100mph ball coming at you. LOL

I think you have about half a second and it's over.

I know, I never would see it.

Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/

When you come to the point where you have no need to impress anybody, your freedom will begin.
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