The Magic Caf
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Not much going on (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
balducci
View Profile
Loyal user
Canada
230 Posts

Profile of balducci
Seriously, of course, I hope the people suffering are getting by okay, and getting all the assistance they need.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Woland
View Profile
Special user
680 Posts

Profile of Woland
Weather.
Scott Cram
View Profile
Inner circle
2678 Posts

Profile of Scott Cram
Quote:
On 2012-06-30 20:39, balducci wrote:
So is the list accurate? I honestly do not know.


Here's the bill in its final form. The above taxes are indexed with their corresponding page numbers. Check it for yourself.

Ever wonder why you never hear about a car insurance crisis?

It's because car insurance isn't designed as poorly as medical insurance.

Imagine if car insurance covered everything, including filling up with gas and oil changes. You'd stop pricing gas and oil changes, and simply go to the closest station for those services. As a result, gas prices and oil changes would skyrocket.

Do you think a middle-aged man without a single accident on his record should pay the same as 16-year-old who's eager to impress the girls at high school with his first car? Of course not, but if car payments were required to be the same for everybody, the careful driver would see his rates go up to compensate for all the poor drivers.

The more people are charged for their plans or taxes, the more they'll go to health care facilities in an attempt to get their money's worth.

These skyrocketing prices happened when companies were first required to offer healthcare plans to their employees, and it will happen again under the Obama health care tax increase.

Imagine, instead, if health insurance plan purchasers were rewarded the longer they stayed healthy and/or purchased health care services on their own. You'd start seeing health care prices come down, and innovation in the market would increase.

But it seems we don't want that.
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Those who are trying to depict the health care act as a new "tax" conveniently overlook the fact that four out of five justices in the majority upheld the ACA's mandate on commerce clause grounds and NOT as a tax.

It is also worth noting that Romney himself has stated that the mandate is not a tax.

Furthermore, the so called "tax" only effects those who can afford insurance and choose not to obtain it - only around one percent of the population. CBO projections show that the act actually saves money in the long term.

GOP fear mongering is baseless and reminiscent of the "death panel" lies they spread when the act was first introduced. But, then again, truth has never been one of their major concerns.
Pecan_Creek
View Profile
Veteran user
The Nation of TEXAS!
323 Posts

Profile of Pecan_Creek
[/quote]


Ever wonder why you never hear about a car insurance crisis?

It's because car insurance isn't designed as poorly as medical insurance.

Imagine if car insurance covered everything, including filling up with gas and oil changes. You'd stop pricing gas and oil changes, and simply go to the closest station for those services. As a result, gas prices and oil changes would skyrocket.

Do you think a middle-aged man without a single accident on his record should pay the same as 16-year-old who's eager to impress the girls at high school with his first car? Of course not, but if car payments were required to be the same for everybody, the careful driver would see his rates go up to compensate for all the poor drivers.

The more people are charged for their plans or taxes, the more they'll go to health care facilities in an attempt to get their money's worth.

These skyrocketing prices happened when companies were first required to offer healthcare plans to their employees, and it will happen again under the Obama health care tax increase.

Imagine, instead, if health insurance plan purchasers were rewarded the longer they stayed healthy and/or purchased health care services on their own. You'd start seeing health care prices come down, and innovation in the market would increase.

But it seems we don't want that.
[/quote]

Wha???

Risk in car insurance is spread out amongst the whole population of those that drive cars.
It is Mandated by every state that you have car insurance or you pay a "tax" (fines) . That is why auto insurance rates are pretty stable.
A Person can not go to a "county body shop" to get their car fixed after a wreck if they don't have insurance. Like those without health insurance.

Every person who pays local taxes is already paying a tax for the uninsured. A REAL ONE.

To use your analogy. There is no provision that a healthy 50 year old has to pay the same premium as a 16 year old with severe medical problems.

I agree that more coverage or incentives for preventative care, and education that Mcdonalds isn't really a resturant would be quite beneficial.
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16363 Posts

Profile of tommy
Since insurance is gambling can you opt out if you are Arabian?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
GlenD
View Profile
Inner circle
LosAngeles, Ca
1299 Posts

Profile of GlenD
They will be doing medical degree tech-schooling programs like ITT and stuff before long. Either that or there will be a lot more of those doctors working off the grid so to speak from their home or basement! Just don't go alone.

Glen
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin

"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!)
critter
View Profile
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2556 Posts

Profile of critter
Smile
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Pecan_Creek
View Profile
Veteran user
The Nation of TEXAS!
323 Posts

Profile of Pecan_Creek
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 17:40, tommy wrote:
Since insurance is gambling can you opt out if you are Arabian?


A Horse?
Woland
View Profile
Special user
680 Posts

Profile of Woland
Have you noticed, now that the bill passed SCOTUS review, people without health insurance have gone from being the "unfortunate uninsured" to "freeloaders" who increase everyone else's costs? Just as the unemployed for whom the Vanguard Party of the Working Class staged the October Revolution became parasites as soon as the Soviet constitution had been implemented.
NicholasD
View Profile
Inner circle
1458 Posts

Profile of NicholasD
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 16:14, mastermindreader wrote:
Those who are trying to depict the health care act as a new "tax" conveniently overlook the fact that four out of five justices in the majority upheld the ACA's mandate on commerce clause grounds and NOT as a tax.

It is also worth noting that Romney himself has stated that the mandate is not a tax.




The four out of five who upheld it were liberals who were going to uphold it no matter what.

The mandate wasn't intended to be a tax until Justice Roberts re-wrote it.

It would be really interesting to see what would happen if Supreme Court decisions had to be unanimous.

If Obama were a staight up guy he should have repealed his own mandate on the basis that he didn't intend it to be a tax ( as he's stated in the past ), thus insuring re-election.
balducci
View Profile
Loyal user
Canada
230 Posts

Profile of balducci
Quote:
On 2012-07-02 17:40, tommy wrote:

Since insurance is gambling can you opt out if you are Arabian?

Insurance is not gambling per se but Islamic law DOES have a prohibition against interest, and that complicates finance and insurance.

Of course, OTHER religions also have prohibitions against insurance. So this is more than an "Arabian" issue. It also applies to the Amish, Mennonites, Hutterites, etc.

BTW, insurances in accordance with Islamic law do exist. For instance, something called Takaful. You can look it up.

In answer to your question, though, see here:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/exemptions.asp
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
It doesn't matter if Roberts called it a tax or not. I agree with Romney- it's a penalty and not a tax, since only those who can afford but still refuse to get insurance will have to pay it.

The mandate is all about the personal responsibility that conservatives and the Heritage Foundation (where the mandate idea came from in the first place) have long supported.

Until Obama agreed that it was a good idea.
balducci
View Profile
Loyal user
Canada
230 Posts

Profile of balducci
Is anyone here able to answer this next question for me without getting all political?

Okay, so SCOTUS says the individual mandate is really a tax. What does that change? Does anything in the law actually get rewritten? Does anything in its implementation have to be changed?

Some people say SCOTUS rewrote the mandate, but did it really rewrite anything? Did it rewrite the mandate or tell Congress to rewrite it? Or did it just determine that the mandate satisfies the constitution, though for a different reason than expected?
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Correct. They didn't rewrite the bill. The only thing that was changed was that they found unconstitutional the section that would have cut states off from all federal medicaid funding if they didn't agree to accept medicaid expansion.

Roberts simply used the power of Congress to tax as a rationale for upholding the mandate. As I noted earlier, ALL of the other justices in the majority found it constitutional on Commerce Clause grounds.
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16363 Posts

Profile of tommy
So now we can decide what you can afford, we can decide, if you have a spare bedroom, that you can afford to let a tramp have it, espeacially if the tramp has downsyndrome. Great idea! We may decide that you have more than your fair share when you come to our poker game, we may decide we are going steal some of it. Just like the Pope said we could.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Not much going on (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2022 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.04 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL