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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Apostrophe and an s (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-07-03 18:31, landmark wrote:Chicago used to favor omission of the s after the apostrophe, now it merely allows it.



7.16Possessive of proper nouns, letters, and numbers
The general rule extends to proper nouns, including names ending in s, x, or z, in both their singular and plural forms, as well as letters and numbers.

SINGULAR FORMS
Kansas’s legislature
Chicago’s lakefront
Marx’s theories
Jesus’s adherents
Berlioz’s works
Tacitus’s Histories
Borges’s library
Dickens’s novels
Malraux’s masterpiece
Josquin des Prez’s motets



-The Chicago Manual of Style (online)
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

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landmark
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Thanks, I was wrong to rely on Wikipedia for Chicago's present recommendation; as you say the present 16th edition don't even allow dropping the apostrophe s as an option anymore.

However, from the previous 15th edition:

"7.23An alternative practice

Those uncomfortable with the rules, exceptions, and options outlined above may prefer the system, formerly more common,[italics mine] of simply omitting the possessive s on all words ending in s—hence “Dylan Thomas’ poetry,” “Maria Callas’ singing,” and “that business’ main concern.” Though easy to apply, that usage disregards pronunciation and thus seems unnatural to many."

I would argue that English disregards pronunciation much of the time, while the language is much more constrained by what combinations of letters may appear together. Business's with three of the same letters in a row is very clumsy.
mastermindreader
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On 2012-07-03 20:00, S2000magician wrote:
Gus'


The problem with that is in the pronunciation. "Gus's tie" is pronounced "Gusses tie" NOT "Gus tie" whereas "Jesus' cross" is pronounced just as it is written and NOT "Jesuses cross."
S2000magician
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On 2012-07-03 22:28, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-03 20:00, S2000magician wrote:
Gus'

The problem with that is in the pronunciation. "Gus's tie" is pronounced "Gusses tie" NOT "Gus tie" whereas "Jesus' cross" is pronounced just as it is written and NOT "Jesuses cross."

ghoti.
mastermindreader
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Is that like the card game "Go Ghoti?"

:eek:
stoneunhinged
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On 2012-07-03 18:25, mastermindreader wrote:
Just refer to Strunk & White, "The Elements of Style." It's the standard reference.


Actually, it is rule #1.

And I think the reason it is rule number one is that it's a sort of warning shot across the bow about what is to come: a preference for clarity above all else. "Gus's" is preferable because it is clearer.
critter
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I thought rule #1 was "bros before hoes."
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
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Jeff J.
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On 2012-07-03 17:29, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Conan's wife was barbaric.

Just sayin'... Smile


My ex-wife was barbaric.
Jeff J.
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On 2012-07-04 06:08, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-03 17:29, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Conan's wife was barbaric.

Just sayin'... Smile


My ex-wife was barbaric. Correct grammer isn't as importnat as it once was. Perhaps when it comes to business, but not on an everday level.
Vincero
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The added 's' is essentially an American addition no? I was always taught, and still always (try to) adhere to the English way of doing things.

I do however, enjoy the comma before an 'and' at the end of a list: I had a cat, a mouse, and a dog. The English usually insist on dropping the final comma. To me, the clarity argument cuts the mustard here; I'm not so sure about the s's though.

Zac
"Which way I fly is Hell; myself am Hell; And in the lowest deep a lower deep
Still threat'ning to devour me opens wide, To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heav'n" -John Milton, (Paradise Lost)
Jeff J.
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I never could get the hang of apostrophes.
Woland
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Agree with Bob, Strunk & White, and the majority of SCOTUS, although I think that they never "decided" this question, their "decision" is based on a review of the individual justices' practices. What bothers me more than the additional "S" is the superflous apostrophe that one often finds on roadside signs and other informal places. E.g. "Fresh Apple's for sale." It is also wrong when used to indicate the plural of a family name, e.g. "the Johnson's" -
landmark
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On 2012-07-04 04:32, stoneunhinged wrote:
Quote:
]

Actually, it is rule #1.

And I think the reason it is rule number one is that it's a sort of warning shot across the bow about what is to come: a preference for clarity above all else. "Gus's" is preferable because it is clearer.


Yes, I think that's the best grounds for argument. I don't think that pronunciation is a strong one at all for reasons that S2000 and I have indicated.
I guess I'm going to start changing, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. Seems awfully ugly to me.
Woland
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As the Croatian psychiatrist said, do it a few more times. You'll get used to it.
Steve_Mollett
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Two pages over THIS?!?
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
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Jeff J.
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On 2012-07-04 09:29, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Two pages over THIS?!?


Why not? It's the 4'th of July weekend. Many people have the day off, so why not spend it on a forum?
S2000magician
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On 2012-07-04 02:15, mastermindreader wrote:
Is that like the card game "Go Ghoti?"

:eek:

Touché!
Jim Sparx
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Gus's wife looks like his cousin Daryl's other older brother, Daryl.
P.S. She ain't that hot.
Tom Jorgenson
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Edit, wrong thread....
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mastermindreader
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If there were two brothers whose last name was Gu, their wives would properly be referred to as the Gus' mates. That's about the only construction of Gus' that I believe would be correct.
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