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heythorsson
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Hey guys. This is my first post here so I will be brief before I state my question.
I am from Iceland and am a certified clinical hypnotherapist. I have done a couple of shows on stage but only with a Dave Elman induction. Similar to the one that I use for my clinic. I have had really good success with this but I am wanting to do a more dramatic and a better show. My model for this is Justin Tranz. I believe he is a great showman. What I am thinking and wondering about is what steps does Justin Tranz do? I know he does the pre-talk which includes testing the audience. After that he invites people upon stage. What does he do after that, does he make people sit down and test them or does he go into a standing test such as eyes closed and from there into an instant induction? This is not just a question about Justin Tranz, he is only my model for this. I am just curious to know what the steps are. Since I use testing and then invite people upon stage and then into a short induction with music. If anyone knows what I am trying to imply with this please let me know.

Also I have a lot of book and video training, but no live stage hypnosis training. If anyone is willing to dissect this with me I would be really happy.

Best,
Hjortur
Dannydoyle
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Here is the best advice you will get.

You already have an understanding of the process and what must be done. This is a better starting point than most.

Now go study theater as opposed to hypnosis and you will find a whole world of answers opening up to you. Structure the show from a theatric point of view, and put in what is necessary.

I have no idea where you are from but theater courses are usually quite affordable.

Good luck.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
dmkraig
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Ditto what Danny wrote.
mindpunisher
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Actually doing a theatre course might be worthwhile. But what you need is stage hypnosis training. Its clear you don't know enough about stage techniques, That would be my first option because you won't get that at a theatre course. Then go watch a few good stage hypnotists. The theatre course might help you polish it but you need a solid stucture first. Why not do Justin's training?
TonyB2009
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Here is what I did, which helped enormously. I went to four different hypnosis shows, took copious notes, and compared the four shows. The similarities were what made the show work. After analysing the four shows, and reading McGill's encyclopaedia, I was ready.

In Iceland it might be difficult to catch hypnosis shows, so you will have to find them on the internet. But watch full shows, not excerpts.

Check out Jon Chase - his book Deeper and Deeper gives useful information on structuring a show, and there is a clip of a full show on his website, I believe.
Mindpro
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Some good advice has been offered, but let me add my thoughts to this. First I'm curious as to why you are interested or modeling yourself after Justin Tranz? I like Justin, but am just curious, if you have not been a part if his recent training? Have you ever seen his entire show or just youtube clips?

One of the problems I think you may be facing, is also a very common problem, not just exclusive to you. Yes, you have the knowledge and understanding of hypnosis and it's use and application. That as Danny said is half of the equation. However, are you an entertainer? Being a entertainer or performer is the second half of the equation. Yes, theater classes can help, so can books or DVDs, but even those will not make you an entertainer.

This is one of the absolute biggest problems in Hypnosis today, is the huge misconception that a Hypnotherapist (or Street Hypnotists) is somehow qualified to be a stage hypnotist.

While I do not know the figures for last year, I know that in 2010 nearly 80% of the new business calls that came in to our office (actually 78%) were from potential clients that wanted to book a stage hypnosis show, and had previously hired a hypnotist, many times a local hypnotherapist to perform at their last event, but were completely disappointed. They believe in stage hypnosis as a excellent means of entertainment, have seen good stage hypnosis shows elsewhere, but in an effort to cut corners, they went with a local hypnotherapist that either believed he could do a hypnosis show, or said something too the effect of "yeah, I can give it a try." This almost always ends up in a disaster.

Stage hypnosis is the combining of the proper training in the use and application of hypnosis (the science) with the proper training, knowledge and experience as an entertainer, a performer (the art.)

The problem I have with Tony's advice, although I do always recommend seeing as many stage hypnosis shows as possible, whenever possible, is that a good stage hypnotist makes it look easy. He is entertaining first, then uses the hypnosis. He makes it look so easy that often even a skilled hypnotist in the audience doesn't see everything at work there.

As an entertainer, you are an Master of Ceremonies, an educator, a director, a comedian, a producer, and you must be in complete control of yourself, the production, audio, music, staging, pacing, flow, engagement with the audience, the proper testing/selecting of the best subjects, the dismissal of the poor or less preferred subjects, you are working the committee as a whole, as well as individuals - all at the same time. A stage hypnotist performance is unlike most other types of performances as there are two shows going on as once - the one to the subjects on stage, and the one to the audience. This is no small task, and again has extremely little to do with hypnosis.

The other common mistake many hypnotherapists make is the mistaken belief that the hypnosis is in and of itself the entertainment or entertaining. That the hypnosis is the comedy. Again, wrong. It is the entertainer that makes this happen, hypnosis is simply the vehicle or one of the tools to utilize in the process.

Truth be told most hypnotherapists have little if any experience in working with groups of subjects, and dealing with different depths, responses, and safety concerns all at the same time. It's not like one person on a couch or in a chair relaxing, getting your complete focus and attention.

Plus basic hypnosis is not that entertaining itself. You must make it entertaining. Can you work an audience? Can you read an audience? Can you win them over in the first two minutes and have them in the palm of our hand? Can you get them to like your character, as of course this is the first step to credibility, and trust?

You mentioned the pre-talk. Many hypnotherapist view a pre-talk as simply setting the stage and offering a basic setup or explanation, and maybe cover a few rules or guidelines. I have been to hypnosis guild meetings where hypnotherapists that have been doing this for 25 years believed this. A pre-talk is soooo much more when done properly for stage. You are working about 5-10 layers all at once in order to assure you will have a great performance. Yes, you are informing and educating in the process, but there is much more to it. PLUS, you have to make the entire thing entertaining at the same time while trying to reach your desired results on all of these levels.

Reading books, watching DVDs or attending live shows is always helpful and great for getting ideas, but as suggested you should really get decent (that's the key word) stage hypnosis training, and some training or experience as an entertainer. Only then will you truly be where you want to be. I also strongly suggest after stage hypnosis training (if you can) to offer to assist or intern with a stage hypnotist to gain some real world, hands-on experience.

I've seen so many hypnnotists try to cut corners and either end up getting discouraged and quite, have a terrible performance that they never get over, or never reach the results they desire, and yet can understand why. I hope this helps and I wish you the best of luck.
snm
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Quick question for you guys... Mindopro and Mindpunisher espcially, as you guys really know what you are talking about.

Who, in your opinion, is the best stage hypnosis trainer for a newbie wanting to go about learning correctly?
Dannydoyle
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I will only say this about any training. The reason I recommend actual theater work is to learn how to create your own show, your own personality and give the audience an experience that is YOU.

Yes this way takes far longer so nobody will do it but it makes sense.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TonyB2009
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The original poster can't get hands-on training because he is in Iceland. In addition hypnotists love to over-complicate the art. If he is a natural entertainer, then he can pick up the skills in a matter of hours. That is the reality. He is a trained therapist, so if he can entertain he could be up and running as a stage hypnotist in a matter of weeks.

If he can't entertain, then all the training, mentoring and shadowing in the world will not have him doing shows.

I remember on one of Derren Brown's shows he trained three people to put on a stage show in a few hours. I have done the same myself. The guy I trained was a comedian and magician with lots of stage time behind him. The hypnosis part was the simplest.

Danny's advice to study theatre is probably the best advice given so far. An alternative is to join a Toastmasters Club and learn to present and to control an audience. The key to the whole thing is presentational skills.
mindpunisher
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I agree with Danny in that it takes a long time to put together a good show. you can get stage training on video which would help get the structure fast. When I was learning I saw it in a series of layers. First you have to learn the structure. When you understand he structure you need to learn the language word by word then you need to go out and do it. That would include the kind of inductions you want in your show etc. At this point I wouldn't really bother about the theatrical side. The reason being is you need to internalize each part so it becomes automatic to you. There is so much going on on stage also that you can't do everything at same time.

Once you have done a few shows understand the mechanics have the right inductions working ( that's the easiest part) and you have consistent control of the show without much thinking then you can work more on the theatrics you spend more of your conscious capacity on that until that become automatic.

I found when I was doing regular shows at least 20% was experimenting. If something worked well I would work it into the next show.

But to go to theatrics without internalizing the structure and content first is not a good idea in my opinion. You are all assuming he has the structure because he is a hypnotherapist but if he is using Dave Elman inductions mu guess is he really needs to get some training even through videos.

I have seen some really bad hypnotists over the years my guess they learned in a similar wt to Tony. As for Derren Brown? First of all its a tv programme never believe everythin you see on tv. If I remember right the guy was rubbish.
TonyB2009
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MP, the bad hypnotists are the ones who don't change and adapt as they go along, irrespective of training. You only get good by, as you aptly put it, experimenting. Anyone can become competent but boring fairly quickly. He needs to start doing small low-key shows to build up a bit of experience. But already being a hypnotist, if he has any showmanship he can get quickly to that stage. Beyond that it becomes a matter of learning as he goes.

I have seen some great hypnotists learn my way. The worst hypnotist I have seen over here is the most highly qualified, who has read and studied voraciously. The best has less training that I do. I know that the reverse also holds true; guys with training often excel too. But for me the key is flexibility. Those who are flexible learn and improve. Those who don't may have long careers, but as Barry Sinclair said about one: he doesn't have twenty years experience, he had one year's experience repeated twenty times.
mindpunisher
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I agree Tony but the only way to be a good hypnotist is to come from a place of good foundation. What hasn't really been said is Talent has a lot to do whether someone is bad or good. If you don't have some talent then no amount of training will do you any good. Its not about qualifications its about getting the right information. With the right information you will still get good and bad hypnotists. But learning curve will be shorter.

There are also so many qualifications out there some of which aren't that good. A piece of paper means nothing.
Mindpro
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Quote:
On 2012-07-05 20:40, snm wrote:
Quick question for you guys... Mindopro and Mindpunisher espcially, as you guys really know what you are talking about.

Who, in your opinion, is the best stage hypnosis trainer for a newbie wanting to go about learning correctly?


Where are you located?


Talent does have much to do with it I agree. I also disagree with the idea of performing some "small, low-key shows" to build experience. I think this is one of the keys to failure for most starting stage hypnotists. To me, it is and has always been harder to perform a small show of say 3-8 subjects, than it is for a much larger show. Unfortunately many when starting out go for these one on one or smaller groups shows. These really turn the odds against you and even if you get a great subject or two, it still is a very flat, boring show. The entertainment dynamic of a good stage hypnosis show comes from the larger number of hypnotized subjects and many things happening at once. You as the hypnotist are a conductor of many things happening at once. Three or four subjects don't really need a conductor.

Also in my experience I've noticed that those that seem to regularly perform small shows, always seem to get stuck and remain on a small mentality level. They never move beyond that specific level. And they also seem to think and execute small - small suggestions, small routines, small comedy, small amazement, small crowd reactions, small earnings, small book-back ratios, etc. They never seem to advance from small.

My last show on Saturday night, after testing and dismissing about 12-15 people, I kept 64 on stage subjects. To me this is much easier to execute than a smaller show of less than 8 or ten. As a matter of fact, I myself and many hypnotists I know will not even accept a smaller show, period. I think even my very first show had about 30 subjects in it. This makes for better entertainment, increases you chances for great overall success on all levels, and invests more of the audience as it is far more entertaining.

Why begin with a show where the odds are more stacked against you? Now again, you must be a good entertainer or as MP said have some talent, or none of this matters. Stage hypnosis is also all about dynamics. These dynamics are greater with a larger show.

I also agree that stage hypnosis has some terrible performers out there. Again the misconception seems to be "I can do hypnosis, so I can do a show". Truth be told the majority of stage hypnotists I've seen are typically poor. I've probably attended or seen between 50-60 stage hypnosis shows, and was really impressed with maybe 6 or 8 that I would say were good or that I would be willing to book. Now there are many reasons for this I believe, but that's another topic for another day.
mindpunisher
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Nice work if you can get it Mindpro. But reality is for most they will not have the luxury of having such a large audience. We all work differently but even in my large shows I only ever had 14 seats on stage and that's all I ever kept up. I have seen the type of show you talk about and I didn't like that format for a number of reasons. I chose another format which I saw as faster paced and more modern. But that's just my point of view.

Smaller shows of between 30 and 100 are easiest for the beginner. And you will get that if you market bars hotels with a function room. I really believe you learn by internalizing each aspect before moving on to the next. Otherwise you just overwhelm yourself. The big laughs come once you can "play" on stage without worrying about the mechanics. Looking after 20 or in your case 64 people on stage is overwhelming for someone who is still consciously working with the mechanics. I jumped into big shows only after a couple of months doing smaller shows. My first big show I got by did well enough for it to keep selling out. But my brains were fried because of the instant learning curve of dealing with a large number of people. But after a few years it becomes second nature.

When I returned to the stage a couple of years ago after 10 years absence I jumped straight into doing big shows. I found I was rusty and to some degree had to work through those layers again internalizing each step in that order. I found it very stressful relearning or getting the knack back.

Over here right now the opportunity to do big shows is not viable fora number of reasons unless you find a venue like I described in another post.

To answer Snms question about who is the best to learn from? I don't know who is the best... I might offer some mentoring via skype or training if anyone is interested.But there are a number of trainers that could get you started.
Mindpro
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MP, yes I do agree with you, which is why I asked him where he was from, as I know that does make a difference in both available training, as well as levels and types of performance venues. I guess my point is smaller shows are often harder to perform and achieve success, even for experienced stage hypnotists. Although you don't need to do that large of shows as I mentioned, even a slightly larger show that 4-6 could make a measurable difference (such as 10-12).

The other thing that is always in the back of my mind when hearing people that talk about Street Hypnosis or smaller shows is that many forms of entertainment don't play well larger or on stage, and are better in an intimate performance situation. Hypnosis I feel plays best in a larger performance venue and format. So why reduce or diminish it, when it has this ability. Again, I'm talking in general here, not aimed at a beginner.
Dannydoyle
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I personally would never have more than 20 on stage. It is unwieldy.

I could never keep track of them. 20 is my personal upper limit. My style does not allow for it.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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I would only do large shows if I had the option. Funnily enough I got a call tonight asking about a pub show. Not had a call in a long time I'm not looking. Someone else asked me last week. Maybe there is some interest coming back.

I agree that big shows have the best atmosphere and opportunities for the best shows. You also have a bigger marketing problem and usually a bigger risk too. I never understood how hypnotists like Justin brag about being able to do very small shows claiming its a sign of skill. I started off as a beginner doing these shows and pulled them off. And no matter how good you are you will only ever be able to pull off an average show at best.

I think most seats on stage were also 20 but usually 14. I also had a second rapid group induction at second half of show that was spectacular and allowed me to include more people. I sent many back to their seats doing things through out the remainder of the show.

Big shows can be complex but are usually much better than small ones. On the same toucan I did a "show" end of last year for a small group of businessmen. There were only 10 people. It was more of a business lecture and how the mind can be configured for success or failure. The small close up nature really worked very well.
Dannydoyle
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I have done smaller shows they don't worry me.

Most are just for 300 - 400 people.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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Shows don't worry me I just prefer the size to be bigger. Because they are more fun better to do and you get paid more. You have a perfect sized show regularly. That's great. There are not many opportunities in Europe that would give you this regularly.
TonyB2009
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I cannot imagine doing a show with 64 on the stage. It takes any chance of personality out of the picture. Too many, too unwieldy. The most I ever had was about thirty at a college gig, and that was only because I had thirty minutes, not enough time to be selective. I just shouted sleep, and kept those who did stayed on stage. It was purely a numbers game, and not much fun. The most fun show was another college gig, scheduled bizarrely for two weeks before the students came back. I performed to twelve people, with just four subjects. Great craic. Small shows are every bit as valid a form of hypnosis as big shows.
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