The Magic Caf
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Scientists offer public $1,600 to crack cold case (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

panlives
View Profile
Inner circle
2087 Posts

Profile of panlives
Here's your chance, all you budding scientists:

"Scientists offer public $1,600 to crack cold case"

"A scientific phenomenon has stumped scientists for centuries -- even
Aristotle couldn't crack it. Now the frustration has grown so unbearable
that the brainiacs are turning to you, yes you, to help solve the mystery of
why hot water freezes faster than cold water. If anyone can make a
"convincing case," they could pocket a $1,600 reward. Hurry up and get your
H20 know-how in check as you only have until July 30 to submit ideas to The
Royal Society of Chemistry in London. The winner will need to "employ some
creative thinking," said the society's Brian Emsley, as many theories have
been proposed over the years but none proven. Break out the ice trays and
start tinkering!"

http://now.msn.com/now/0627-research-contest-ice.aspx

Good luck. Maybe a Nobel is in your future.
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
MobilityBundle
View Profile
Regular user
Las Vegas/Boston
120 Posts

Profile of MobilityBundle
To be sure, there has already been a lot of thought on the subject, called the Mpemba Effect: [url http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mpemba[/url].
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5138 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On 2012-07-05 15:12, MobilityBundle wrote:
To be sure, there has already been a lot of thought on the subject, called the Mpemba Effect.

Thanks, interesting. Corrected the link. That's one of those things I can't believe they didn't figure out long ago. Very surprising.
MobilityBundle
View Profile
Regular user
Las Vegas/Boston
120 Posts

Profile of MobilityBundle
Thanks, I was just trying to figure out how to correct the link. The whole square bracket delimiter thing shuts down my brain. Smile
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16346 Posts

Profile of tommy
Cool! Its a good question. I don't know.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Marlin1894
View Profile
Special user
558 Posts

Profile of Marlin1894
My personal theory since I first heard about this when I was about 10 or 11 years old is some kind of momentum. The warm water starts to drop in temp faster than the cold water initially, because it has farther to fall temp wise to get to freezing. As it cools it builds up some sort of momentum* and begins to freeze faster and faster. Eventually the warm water excedes the rate that the cooler water is freezing, and freezes first.

Of course that is based on absolutely nothing. Certainly not science since I know next to nothing about science.

*Or even some sort of "reverse" momentum where the molecules begin to "lock up" faster and faster, forming crystals and become solid.
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Marlin- That's EXACTLY how I have always thought about the problem. It seems to make sense.
Marlin1894
View Profile
Special user
558 Posts

Profile of Marlin1894
Quote:
On 2012-07-05 16:23, mastermindreader wrote:
Marlin- That's EXACTLY how I have always thought about the problem. It seems to make sense.


Maybe that is what happens, and that is known. Maybe it the how or why the "momentum" is generated that is the true question. Maybe that's the "impossibility". I don't know. But since it's my own theory it makes perfect sense to me too. lol!
Marlin1894
View Profile
Special user
558 Posts

Profile of Marlin1894
BTW. Doesn't $1600 bucks seem like kind of a paltry reward for solving a mystery that has befuddled man since the days of Aristotle? Where did they get that figure? Is that how much The Royal Society of Chemistry has lying around in the petty cash drawer or something?
MobilityBundle
View Profile
Regular user
Las Vegas/Boston
120 Posts

Profile of MobilityBundle
The "momentum" theory might be a valid observation, but short of an explanation. A more proposition is Newton's law of cooling, which states that an object placed in an environment cools at a rate proportional to the difference of the temperatures between the object and the environment. But Newton's law of cooling is an idealization. A glass of water isn't "an object." There are complicated phenomena going on in the water, like convection currents that distribute heat.

Significantly, the degree to which the Mpemba effect occurs does not just depend on the initial temperature difference of the water. For example, the shape of the container matters. That level of subtlety isn't captured by strictly thermodynamic explanations.
Michael Daniels
View Profile
Inner circle
Isle of Man
1550 Posts

Profile of Michael Daniels
Quote:
On 2012-07-05 16:36, Marlin1894 wrote:
BTW. Doesn't $1600 bucks seem like kind of a paltry reward for solving a mystery that has befuddled man since the days of Aristotle? Where did they get that figure? Is that how much The Royal Society of Chemistry has lying around in the petty cash drawer or something?


It should be at least a $64,000 question.

I'd go with the evaporation theory - the hot water evaporates more than the cold water which (a) reduces the mass of the water which needs to be frozen, and (b) leads directly to increased heat loss through the evaporation process (for the same reason we sweat when hot to cool us down).

Mike
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Scientists offer public $1,600 to crack cold case (0 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2022 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL