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Jeff J.
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So it's like running with the bulls in Spain, except the bulls have engines?
rockwall
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Quote:
On 2012-07-12 12:48, mastermindreader wrote:
Actually, what I was objecting to was being pigeonholed into a conservative stereotype of liberals. I am sure you would object to being pigeonholed into liberal stereotypes of conservatives, wouldn't you?

Think about it- I'm a liberal who believes in God and owns a gun. I didn't dodge the draft and I actually enjoy NASCAR.

Bob

(And, yes, I think that conservatives are just as American as black folks. Smile)


Fair enough.

I didn't dodge the draft either but that's easier for me to say. The draft ended about two years before I turned 18. (However, I am considered a Vietnam War 'Era' veteran. So, did you serve? If so, where? Just curious.
mastermindreader
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Yes I did. I had a high draft number but I didn't realize that until after I enlisted and I was already in boot camp in November of '68. (!)

I did four years in the Navy (1968 - 1972) and then 2 years in the Reserves. I served with Command Submarine Flotilla 8 in the Mediterranian, at the Naval Security Group remote ELINT gathering site in Keflavik, Iceland, and at the Naval Security Station in Washington DC. Also did sea duty on the guided missle cruiser USS Josephus Daniels, the cruiser USS Little Rock and aboard the USS America.
critter
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Aw, I've always wanted to go to Iceland...
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
LobowolfXXX
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If you ever get there, tell 'em you knew Bobby Fischer.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2012-07-12 15:40, critter wrote:
Aw, I've always wanted to go to Iceland...


Was there for a year. One of the most beautiful places I've ever seen.
critter
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Quote:
On 2012-07-12 14:00, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quickly...



What I would have said if I'd been here sooner Smile
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
rockwall
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I served 2 in the Army, (at the time I enlisted, they were going through a short phase where they were allowing the short 2 year enlistments.). Most of my time was served in Monterey where I spent most of my service wearing a George Washington style uniform with a tri-corner hat and marching in a color guard in various parades to celebrate the coming bicentenial. Hey! I just realized. Maybe that's why I identify strongly with the tea party! Smile
Dannydoyle
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Bob I don't think anyone would question your love of country who has read more than one of your posts.

I question the.terms you choose to use to paint the opposition is all.

I hope you know I do respect you, if not your tactics for putting forth an opinion. I know nobody asked or said directly, but ghat is where these conversations go and I just want to get out in front of it.

I really wish we would look at people as individuals. Your fun owning NASCAR example is great.

I was against the war in Iraq. Not a typical conservative position. I also own guns, like NASCAR and so forth. I have always said that the two sides need to start a moderate party. Half from each existing party and get away from the extremes. I bet it would work.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
critter
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Hear me out on this,
What if... instead of a two, or even three, party system... we had a NO party system? Can you imagine if each candidate had to be judged on their individual positions?
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
mastermindreader
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I appreciate the ideal. But money would still rule.
ClintonMagus
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Quote:
On 2012-07-12 16:12, critter wrote:
Hear me out on this,
What if... instead of a two, or even three, party system... we had a NO party system? Can you imagine if each candidate had to be judged on their individual positions?


... and imagine if campaign spending was limited to less than the salary for the position?
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
Woland
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Ever read The Federalist Papers?
critter
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Quote:
On 2012-07-12 16:51, ClintonMagus wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-12 16:12, critter wrote:
Hear me out on this,
What if... instead of a two, or even three, party system... we had a NO party system? Can you imagine if each candidate had to be judged on their individual positions?


... and imagine if campaign spending was limited to less than the salary for the position?


Or if everyone were alotted the same predetermined ad-space.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
critter
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Quote:
On 2012-07-12 16:58, Woland wrote:
Ever read The Federalist Papers?


Nope. Sounds like a plan.
Free link:
http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Woland
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Yes, critter. You will find that the authors anticipated most of the issues we have been discussing, and devised the Constitutional system to address them within the limits of the aspirations of the Declaration.

A collection of anti-Federalist papers has also been published recently, I think by the "Library of America."
stoneunhinged
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Quote:
On 2012-07-13 06:27, Woland wrote:
You will find that the authors anticipated most of the issues we have been discussing....


Absolutely true. But what they did not envision (for they were not prophets) is that the #1 function of the modern state would be the re-distribution of wealth. To this fact the US is no exception. All modern states--all of them--have that primary function.

That's one reason I find the terminology so amusing. There is no substantive difference between the USA and any other western democracy on this point. Call it what you want. Sure, there are different priorities on how to spend the money (with the US spending much more on the military than the others), but that's just twiddling and fiddling with budgets.

Those who say, for example, that "socialism" arrived with Obama (seeming to forget, say, LBJ or FDR, or even Reagan and Bushes) obviously weren't paying any attention to their W2's before Obama began office.

Just for curiosity's sake, how much of YOUR paychecks end up in government coffers? I lose roughly a third of mine. I *do* pay a much higher sales tax than you do: 19%. That's why when I visit my sister in PA I take an empty suitcase. I buy virtually all of my clothes there, because PA has no sales tax on clothes. But that aside, I would say that the federal, state, and local governments where YOU live (and I mean regardless of where you live, unless it's China or North Korea, maybe) has its hands in your pockets just about as far as the German government has its hands in mine.

Oh! And don't forget Americans living abroad also must pay taxes in the US! I don't, because I earn well under the $95K exemption that I can claim. But anything above that is taxable. The only way to get out of it would be to renounce my American citizenship. Since most people who renounce American citizenship do so to avoid taxes, the fee is very high--currently $5,000. Interesting, huh?
rockwall
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If you make enough money to want to renounce your American citizenship, I suspect the fee seems quite the bargain compared with paying the taxes!
stoneunhinged
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That's apparently what the IRS thinks, too!

Before they came up with the new high fee, there was actually a moratorim on renouncels (is that a word?). The idea occured to me that this presented a technicality whereby I could apply for German citizenship (I ain't German, but I would like to vote here) without renouncing my American citizenship (something I would never do under any circumstances). My argument would have been that since it was not possible to renounce my American citizenship, that such a renouncel could not be legally demanded as a requirement for German citizenship.

Oh well. I can still vote in the US....
ClintonMagus
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I think it's "renouncement", but I really like your word. Sounds more uppity... Smile
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
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