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Jeff J. Special user Connecticut 787 Posts |
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On 2012-07-12 02:15, mastermindreader wrote: That example is so clear and obvious that I'm ashamed I haven't used that argument myself. Do you mind if I steal that for future reference? |
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2392 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-11 17:53, stoneunhinged wrote: It is true there are many on both sides seem to go along with every position their side takes without thinking it through. I guess because they think their being good liberals, or good conservatives. This is why I especially enjoy debating with people like you, Stone. You don’t do that. And I try not to do that either. I honestly don’t think I fall into the category you’ve described, the people that just view their opponents as wrong. Another frustration of mine with liberals is the perception that they ‘care’ more, (hence the term bleeding heart liberal) and because they care more they are smarter and better people. They care about global warming so they are better. It doesn’t matter if there is no practical solution, and when people point that out they are branded as heartless and ignorant. Quote:
On 2012-07-12 01:22, stoneunhinged wrote: Would mom be a good mom if she continued to clean up the room? What lesson would be learned? I don’t think God works like that either. God has alternate ways to ensure his will is done. Of course, we can’t possibly understand God completely. Who could? His is the infinite intelligence. Some things we have to take on faith, all the while trying to do good, and yes, CARING about others and the earth.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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ClintonMagus Inner circle Southwestern Southeast 3997 Posts |
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On 2012-07-11 18:21, Slide wrote: "Fundamentalist Christians" are followers of Christ who believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God and that a "new birth" which occurs when they believe in Christ as Savior and Lord. To the world this may be viewed as radical, but is very basic to the Christian faith. Jesus said “'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind'. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’" He also said that believers should regard themselves as servants of all. As for the Westboro group, they are simply a nutjob family who are no more Christians by practice than this magnolia tree sitting outside my window. There is no love there. There is no servant attitude. To take one fringe group like them and to extrapolate them into the caricature of fundamentalist Christianity is equivalent with saying that all African Americans are gang members or all Latinos are lazy. It is wrong and hateful. Of course, the stories of the fundamentalist Christians who spend their time and money to dig village wells in Africa, or provide medical services in Central America, or provide money and time to a hurting family without any recognition, or help to rebuild a city or neighborhood following a disaster never seem to make the front page, because those stories are the wrong kind of "sensational". You can probably nitpick and argue all sorts of situations out of context to "prove" that the majority of fundamentalist Christians are like Westboro. Heck, you can probably even find research that "proves" the Earth is flat or that all atheists will eventually end up in prison, but that doesn't make it so. Since I am contributing to this topic being off the rails, I will bow out of this discussion.
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Ah, don't bow out. It's not off the rails. This forum has no rails. And you made your case pretty well. It has always been obvious to me that intolerance is usually only practiced in one direction--toward those we have some sympathy for. People who consider themselves free of bigotry and hatred will say the nastiest things about believers of other faiths. It's very peculiar.
I don't usually ever step in to defend Woland, because he does a fine job defending himself, but it's interesting to me that his assertion that the word "fascism" is used pejoratively rather than accurately is entirely correct. Likewise, the "right" uses "left" as pejorative, and vice versa. Then we make inaccurate connections such as "liberal" is "left", and "fascist" is "right", and we start blurring the language for political purposes rather than precise exchanges of ideas. In the same exact way, the term "fundamentalist" is almost always used pejoratively by those who do not consider themselves fundamenalists. So regardless of what the Westboro group believes or doesn't believe, and regardless of its heritage or pedigree or history, calling the group "fundamentalist" is meant to be bad and an obvious indication of their strangeness and dangerousness. And to Bob: I noticed that you were silent regarding my own Heritage Foundation fellowship. I was never asked to write, think, say, teach, perform any task that was not inspired by my own intellectual volition. Now, that may have been two decades ago, and the foundation itself might have lost its bearings. But intellectually dishonest it was not. And the reason I made it personal was precisely because you are doing the very same thing of making the name itself the proof of its lack of integrity rather than making any substantive argument whatsoever. I'm not particularly proud of the association with Heritage, but neither am I ashamed. Your comments imply that I should be; yet I have always gotten the impression that you respect me and my opinions. It would really be a shame to lose your respect for something on my resume (though it's not on my resume, precisely because of views such as yours). You can do better, Bob, and you know it. We all can. We all slip now and again in this forum. But I think we keep coming back because we give each other the benefit of the doubt. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
I think very well of you, Jeff, so no offense was intended. If anything my respect for you has grown immensely since I've been here at NVMS.
My point about Heritage is based solely on its current primary sources of funding and that they were, in fact, used by Big Tobacco to provide "research" that that supposedly showed no link between cigarette smoking and cancer. It is no surprise to me, therefore, that they are also being subsidized to produce similar results regarding AGW. That they may have at one time, or even currently, been involved in legitimate and substantive studies in other areas- I'm sure that they have. But there is no denying that they also are a highly partisan political think tank. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
It’s just like ancient Rome, isn’t it?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
No, it's not.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Bob why do you cling to something done in the sixties as proof of your viewpoint?
This is what I find upsetting. People use the most extreme views they can find in order to demonize the other viewpoint. The right does it with the president. First they call the president Obama (Or just Bush.) which fairly disrespectful. Then they say things like he is intentionally hurting the country, AND THEREFORE PEOPLE. Come on. Not right. I can't disagree with the man more, but I in no way feel he is intentions are to hurt people. He is not a demon, he is a ideologue. So are most politicians. But why look for the worst and pin the viewpoint on them just to win some silly point? Same with president Bush, president Clinton, heck name a president. Can we get past the ideology Bob? Why the constant deionization? It is what you accuse Fox of doing. And they do it, but so do you and a lot. Why not talk ideas instead of accusations? That is why this crap is so boring. Einstein was wrong. Time slows as you approach this thread not the speed of light.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
The tobacco research, which was also conducted by The Heartland Institute, an affiliated conservative think tank, was done in the 1990's NOT in the 1960's.
The CRC was another player: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?tit......h_Center |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Well they all party and wine and *** around like the Romans, so what's the difference?
ie http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-......ies.html
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-12 11:27, tommy wrote: Ok. I'll concede that point. But we have better bands than the Romans did. (Caesar, I'm told, only knew two chords.) |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Robert Byrd was pretty high up in the kkk but that is throat I bet?
I think we should apply the exact same standards for those we disagree with a far as what we hold them too. But obviously everything you say is right down the middle and no ideology or attacks involved.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2012-07-12 12:13, Dannydoyle wrote: No, Danny. You are the one who pretends to be in the "middle." I freely admit to my liberal/progressive views. Proud of them, in fact. And, yes, I frequently attack what I believe to be the regressive positions of the far right. |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
I thought you had previously said that we shouldn't piegonhole you as a liberal? But I'm glad that you admit to it. Now I just wish we could get MSNBC and all the rest to do the same! Shouldn't we all at least be honest where we are coming from?
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Actually, what I was objecting to was being pigeonholed into a conservative stereotype of liberals. I am sure you would object to being pigeonholed into liberal stereotypes of conservatives, wouldn't you?
Think about it- I'm a liberal who believes in God and owns a gun. I didn't dodge the draft and I actually enjoy NASCAR. Bob (And, yes, I think that conservatives are just as American as black folks. ) |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-12 12:48, mastermindreader wrote: Whereas I dodge cars and enjoy a draught.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
NASCAR drivers draft cars. Some of them even draft Dodges.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Jeff J. Special user Connecticut 787 Posts |
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On 2012-07-12 12:55, critter wrote: How does one dodge cars? |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quickly, if he wants to do it more than once.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Ray Tupper. Special user NG16. 749 Posts |
Just a simple side-step.
I believe a jump can also be used among the more experienced car dodging aficionados.
What do we want?
A cure for tourettes! When do we want it? C*nt! |
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