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landmark
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I don't like to indulge in hyperbole for this sort of thing, but be honest--did you know it was this many?


Quote:
The number of Americans affected each year by the growing use of mobile phone data by law enforcement could reach into the tens of millions, as a single request could ensnare dozens or even hundreds of people. Law enforcement has been asking for so-called “cell tower dumps” in which carriers disclose all phone numbers that connected to a given tower during a certain period of time...

The reports showed that AT&T, the nation’s second largest carrier, received about 125,000 requests from the authorities in 2007 — mushrooming to more than 260,000 last year. It charged $2.8 million for the work in 2007 and $8.25 million last year...

the company employs more than 100 full-time staffers and “operates on a 24/7 basis for the purpose of meeting law enforcement demands...


All the while, the Justice Department employs a covert internet and telephone surveillance method known as pen register and trap-and-trace capturing. Judges sign off on these telco orders when the authorities say the information is relevant to an investigation. No probable cause that the target committed a crime — the warrant standard — is necessary


More here: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/07......illance/
Mr. Mystoffelees
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Answer: Hell yes, and we have been for years...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
Jeff J.
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I'm not sure what your question is. This is nothing new by any means. Just another example of a technology where the government tests the boundaries of what they can and can't get away with. I remember similar things happening when I first went online with my Commodore 64 in the 80's, and it's been happeining ever since. The extent of enforcement just increases with the type of technology and the extent it's used.
landmark
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Quote:
I'm not sure what your question is.


The questions are:
1) Did the ten million number surprise you?
2) Are we a police state yet?

I would guess that in the Commodore 64 days, the number of warrantless telephone surveillance requests was nowhere near 10 million. At a certain point a quantitative change becomes a qualitative one.
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It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Jeff J.
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Quote:
On 2012-07-10 20:17, landmark wrote:
Quote:
I'm not sure what your question is.


The questions are:
1) Did the ten million number surprise you?
2) Are we a police state yet?

I would guess that in the Commodore 64 days, the number of warrantless telephone surveillance requests was nowhere near 10 million. At a certain point a quantitative change becomes a qualitative one.


1.) No.
2.) We've always been on the brink. We are usually one law away from being a police state.
landmark
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Quote:
On 2012-07-10 21:07, gdw wrote:
Remember the dancing arrests?

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/07/08/cou......-subway/

If you're not engaging in criminal dancing activity, there's nothing to worry about.
Jeff J.
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Quote:
On 2012-07-10 23:44, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-10 21:07, gdw wrote:
Remember the dancing arrests?

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/07/08/cou......-subway/

If you're not engaging in criminal dancing activity, there's nothing to worry about.


First of all, that's not correct by any means, but let's assume it is. Let's assume only the guilty get in trouble. Let's also assume that you are a person who does nothing wrong. Do you want the government spying on you "just in case"? Maybe you are in a silly mood and talked about things that are very personal with a friend. You want to be investigated because some officials were listening to you and took your joking too seriously because they CAN?

You may not be doing anything wrong, but do you want people listening in on your private life just to make sure? Innocent until proven guilty was nice. Do we now go to guilty until someone who may be an idiot decides you are innocent?

How many of your personal rights are you willing to give up?
acesover
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Does anyne know what crimes this has solved or prevented? Has it saved any lives? Has it ensnared any terrorists? Has it caught any drug dealers? Has it harmed any innocent individuals? I am not saying it is right or wrong but just curious about what it is acomplishing if anything or is it just an infringment on our privacy.

Do cell phones have an expectation of privacy? I mean people use them all the time in public. I of course to not want to see them become an ankle trcking device as put on criminals. I guess I am asking how much of an infringement is it really.

While the numbers seem high I am sure there are millions upon millions of cell phones used daily and not tracked in any way, but they could be. Is that the problem here, that they could be tracked? I mean cell phone tower dumps. Just what are they used for?

All this sounds like an ingringement but is it really? I mean if they dump hunderds of thousands of numbers on a cell tower dump and yours happen to be one of them is that a bad thing if they are not looking for your number and it is lost in the shuffle? However if your number is associated with a known drug dealer and you have let us say 50 calls a week to him is that now a red flag?

I would like to know a lot more about this before passing any sort of judgement on its merits.
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Jeff J.
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How many questions can be asked in one post?
gdw
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Quote:
On 2012-07-10 23:55, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-10 23:44, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-10 21:07, gdw wrote:
Remember the dancing arrests?

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/07/08/cou......-subway/

If you're not engaging in criminal dancing activity, there's nothing to worry about.


First of all, that's not correct by any means, but let's assume it is. Let's assume only the guilty get in trouble. Let's also assume that you are a person who does nothing wrong. Do you want the government spying on you "just in case"? Maybe you are in a silly mood and talked about things that are very personal with a friend. You want to be investigated because some officials were listening to you and took your joking too seriously because they CAN?

You may not be doing anything wrong, but do you want people listening in on your private life just to make sure? Innocent until proven guilty was nice. Do we now go to guilty until someone who may be an idiot decides you are innocent?

How many of your personal rights are you willing to give up?


I believe Landmark was being ironic.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Jeff J.
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Quote:
On 2012-07-11 07:08, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-10 23:55, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-10 23:44, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-10 21:07, gdw wrote:
Remember the dancing arrests?

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/07/08/cou......-subway/

If you're not engaging in criminal dancing activity, there's nothing to worry about.


First of all, that's not correct by any means, but let's assume it is. Let's assume only the guilty get in trouble. Let's also assume that you are a person who does nothing wrong. Do you want the government spying on you "just in case"? Maybe you are in a silly mood and talked about things that are very personal with a friend. You want to be investigated because some officials were listening to you and took your joking too seriously because they CAN?

You may not be doing anything wrong, but do you want people listening in on your private life just to make sure? Innocent until proven guilty was nice. Do we now go to guilty until someone who may be an idiot decides you are innocent?

How many of your personal rights are you willing to give up?


I believe Landmark was being ironic.


I know. Smile
acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-07-11 02:38, Old Scratch Johnson wrote:
How many questions can be asked in one post?


As many as one wishes?

People ask questions and no one knows any of the answers. Yet this does not stop them from posting on the subject. When asked a simple question about the subject they avoid it and post somethng else they just read on the internet. They love to throw numbers around. That is usually a sign that they have no idea what they are talking about but if the numbers are big enough it sounds impressive.
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Woland
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A 16 year old American citizen, who was accused of no crime or wrongdoing, was killed by a drone-launched missile, on the President's orders, and there is no outrage from those who had protested incessantly since 2001.
landmark
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Lots of upset from some on the left. Greenwald has written a lot about it. I have seen no one on the right who thinks it wrong on principle , rather than tactically.
rockwall
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I'm curious landmark. You've let it be known how unhappy you are with Obama. Will you be sitting out this next election? Writing someone else in or voting the status quo as the least worst of two evils?
acesover
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I wonder if the government is following this thread. Smile Some here will be getting a knock on their door so if you don't hear from them again don't be surprised. Smile In the meanntime Smile
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
innercirclewannabe
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Quote:
On 2012-07-11 16:00, acesover wrote:
I wonder if the government is following this thread. Smile Some here will be getting a knock on their door so if you don't hear from them again don't be surprised. Smile In the meanntime Smile


Whatever you say, say nothing
When you talk about you know what
For if you know who could hear you
You know what you'd get
For they'd take you off to you know where
For you wouldn't know how long
So for you know who's sake
Don't let anyone hear you singing this song

And you all know what I'm speaking of
When I mention you know what
And I think it's very dangerous to even mention that
For the other ones are always near
Although you may not see
And if anyone asks who told you that
Please don't mention me Smile
Tá sé ach cleas má dhéanann tú sé cuma mhaith ar cheann.
acesover
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Maybe we should not discuss you know what. Smile You know what I mean.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Pakar Ilusi
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All of us are in Police states.

The Police are always in control.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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